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#334785 - 08/31/05 07:16 PM "Playing Nice" (sic. with the "competition"...)?
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello:
I wanted to ask a quasi-philosophic question. In every neighborhood there are usually many schools of martial arts. Lets hypothosize <sp.?> further that these interactions (however infrequent they might be...) are helpful, useful, positive...

What does your school, or yourself personally do to interact with "them"?

Jeff

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#334786 - 09/01/05 10:15 AM Re: "Playing Nice" (sic. with the "competition"...)? [Re: Ronin1966]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
excellent question. I wish more neighboring dojos either cross-trained and/or shared by guest drop-ins, demos or seminar.

In reality, unfortunately, it's egos that block the dojo doors. There are many levels where something could go wrong which would possibly result in loosing students - real or percieved.
first to mention is 'style-pride' (I think you know where I would go with that if I ellaborated).
then there is 'sensei-envy' or sensei-bias. (x sensei could kick y sensei's ass therefore dojo x is better.)
or, if dojo x really WAS obviously better, what would that do to dojo y's student base?

I think you get the point...ego being the keyword, business being the M.O.

Have you ever tried this ...contact a local dojo and ask them if they are interested in getting the classes together on some saturday afternoon for a joint training session...
There is a good chance the conversation would go something like: "Thank-you appreciate the offer, we aren't interested."

I tried participating in a junior high school "cultural arts" demo. I only had 5 minutes on stage and was going to perform Goju-Seiunchin and talk briefly about Okinawan MA. A local TKD school was also giving a demonstration and didn't seem particulary happy about another MA sharing the stage. The attitude of the TKD instructor put me off but I decided to do it anyway . She insisted her demo be first - no objections from me. Her demo lasted 15 minutes over the already overbooked schedule, and the program director was pacing the floor...I went over to the director and told her since they were behind schedule I'd do it next time and walked out.

Watching the TKD demo, I knew why the instructor didn't want a contrasting MA performing. her students (and her self-held board breaking) were nothing less than embarrassingly terrible. The higest rank student-a 30 something red-belt couldn't kick higher than groin level without loosing his balance with arms flailing. the kata looked as though they took random people off the street and taught them the kata 30 minutes prior to the demo.
The youngest boy (yellow-belt) was the most impressive with his successful jumping over a body and kicking wood. The other breaks were less than successful with the red-belt bouncing off of 2 x 1/2" pine boards when he attempted an elbow strike to break them...he finally did it on the 3rd try. There was J.H. school student muffled-laughter during the demo. lol actually, it was THE worst demo I've ever seen of any MA.

My point is, if ego, politics and games like this go on even for fun cultural events, imagine the uphill struggle it would be getting to train together!

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#334787 - 09/01/05 10:58 AM Re: "Playing Nice" (sic. with the "competition"...)? [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Then find common ground that does not involve territory. Wanna play with sticks?

I do think it revolves around positive relationships between teachers. At one point, my (very) little goju group would train with another TKD group in weapons because the teachers knew each other from way back.

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#334788 - 09/02/05 03:48 AM Re: "Playing Nice" (sic. with the "competition"...)? [Re: Kintama]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Quote:

excellent question. I wish more neighboring dojos either cross-trained and/or shared by guest drop-ins, demos or seminar.





I have to agree. The instructor's I've met are fairly friendly at tourneys and such, but entering their schools with out the intent to become a student might as well be one of the deadly sins.

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#334789 - 09/06/05 09:31 PM "Playing Nice" (sic. with the "competition"...)? [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Victor:
Thank you for "dropping-in", your perspective is always interesting.

How/what can (should?) one do to change that... IYHO?
One assumes these people are teachers in one form or another regardless of their relative skills (or their summary lack) so how do you interact with them?

Even dolts, morons, jerks have a "good purpose", some way to be beneficial, if handled correctly... how do folks handle their martial "competators" whatever you consider their bent/skills???

Helpful, useful interaction does not seem to occur much outside of largely (sic. clownish) tournament environs... surely some do in other ways and proverbial arenas?

Jeff

(ie skilled, incompetant, ignorant, expert, detailed, extraordinary, etc., etc.) whatever their ability, they are all "teachers" in some form). Given they are at least that, assuming you want to build.

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#334790 - 09/07/05 08:06 PM Re: "Playing Nice" (sic. with the "competition"...)? [Re: Ronin1966]
sunspots Offline
oldtimer/newbie
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 650
Loc: Southern Oregon, USA
Our school regularly invites the other MA schools in our town to participate in our tournaments, and the occasional Sparring Night. (We have the biggest place in terms of square footage, so we usually host.) My Sifu encourages us to see other styles, and see what we can learn from them. (He's driven students 4- and 5 hours to other cities for seminars.) We've had seminars and guest instructors from several different styles of MA. He says all this makes us more well-rounded martial artists.

I appreciate seeing and trying other styles. I can't see myself doing anything but Kenpo at the moment, but I've gotten to meet people and see things I'd never experience otherwise.
_________________________
"Anything unattempted remains impossible."

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#334791 - 09/12/05 01:20 PM "Playing Nice" (sic. with the "competition"...)? [Re: sunspots]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Good Morning:

<<Our school regularly invites the other schools to our tournaments and Sparring Night.

Any non-competitive cooperation, sharing? Small or large scale??? Book discussions among small groups, "testing boards", first aid classes, talks about XYZ, ?

Jeff

Jeff

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#334792 - 09/14/05 04:16 AM Re: "Playing Nice" (sic. with the "competition"...)? [Re: Ronin1966]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
I was recently training as a guest at a Tai Chi club in UK. Whilst there the sifu invited me to a seminar of instructors from local clubs who did different arts. Over the day everyone demonstrated their art and did a little workshop for the others. The group included Tai Chi, Chi Kung, Hapkido, Wing Chun and Kali/JKD. It was a very positive atmosphere.

Likewise, when I trained in Glasgow my TKD sabum used to run workshops with a local hapkido group to exchange info and technique. Sometimes "open' tournaments were organised with other styles.

The Judo/JJ clubs where I live in Poland seem to cross-pollenate each other regularly. there is also an annual martial arts show in the local stadium.

I'd suggest trying to organsie a meeting with other instructors. maybe have a core group and meet occasionally for swapping info and social get togethers. If the outcome is positive then you know that it might be ok for your students to cross-train in these other clubs. The competition might even become a fruitful partnership.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#334793 - 09/22/05 07:45 PM "Playing Nice" (sic. with the "competition"...)? [Re: trevek]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Trevek:

I was hoping someone (sic. still) had the kind of experiences you spoke of in your post. I was curious if others have/had similar positive experiences of this type?

Your description is a hopeful one indeed. I thank you for it!

Jeff

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#334794 - 09/23/05 04:46 AM Re: "Playing Nice" (sic. with the "competition"...)? [Re: Ronin1966]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Ronin,
you're welcome. It was a very positive experience. I know in UK many clubs and associations invite other MAists to give seminars about other aspects of their arts which might be new to a club/style (like grappling to TKD students).

In my hometown a group of instructors got together to form an advisory board for the public and press about MA and to promote good practice.

TREV:-)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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