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#334707 - 09/16/07 11:14 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: gdragon]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
I tried the $100 book to the LETTER, and it didn't work. I ended up with a HUGE dojo and NO profits. I lost three thousand dollars...but I might be able to get $6 back for the book on e-bay (discounted since I used a highlighter on some of the pages), ...softening my losses to $-2994.00

I ended up going back to 'tiny dojo, big quality'.

#334708 - 09/17/07 10:29 AM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Hmmm...more like 'Small Dojo, tax write-off scheme'. Think you're on to something Ed. We could all start home dojos...and use them as a 'business loss'.

#334709 - 09/18/07 12:39 AM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: harlan]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
A person would be hard pressed to find a dojo smaller than mine or less profitable.

#334710 - 09/18/07 05:57 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: Ed_Morris]
gdragon Offline

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 38
Loc: CA
Ed Morris, Since I am planing on using his method and you already have, would you be willing to elaborate on your experience with the information you used from SDBP? I am curious how you lost money with a large studio? I studied in a very traditional and small school. My instructor did not make big profits, hardly any, but he was also not a businessman. Like i have seen in the music business and in medicine, lots of really wonderful musicians and docs have great training and skills, but then have to learn to run a business if they wat to make any money. That is how i view the SDBP book, as a resource for me, since I am not a business person. On the other hand, my husband has a degree in business and has worked in finance for years. he is the one who bought the book. But neither of us has run a studio, so I would like to hear about your experience if you care to tell more.

Thanks, Steph

#334711 - 09/18/07 07:38 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: gdragon]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
have you tried a flower shop? I've heard running a florist franchise is fairly lucrative.

#334712 - 09/18/07 08:10 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: Ed_Morris]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Ed, you are funny sometimes...ok, many times.


I have also read the manual. And you have to recognize when others are being facetious. What this really boils down to is a perspective on training and what training and instruction actually mean to the student and to the provider of that education. In essence, what is education? Is it, for instance, a camoflouged belt that you have added to the curriculum so some extra bucks can be made for an additional test where none was originally in "your" studies.

No one is suggesting that it is unfair or wrong to be paid for teaching. However, for some of us, it is distasteful to see what we have loved renderd into something that is less based on education but entails ways of elicting fees for the accoutrements of martial arts training: little ninja parties, patches, special training days, belts, testing fees for "large profits," etc. All these things highlighted in the glorious colors of "where's the money?"

In that case, the focus is less on the education and will always be less focused on what is being presented, but more on how you are paid for that presentation. This will give into rationalizing ways of acquiring more money for less education and perhaps even easing the requirements for that education because the harder it is, the less attractive you make it for a burgeoning population of swelling wallets to fill your coffers.

In the end, do the ends justify the means? Are you looking to teach, or make a profit? Not that you shouldn't or can't do both, but if the focus is on one, it is not on the other.

#334713 - 09/18/07 10:37 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: butterfly]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
all kidding aside, I agree that it's the focus which matters. how about a book called: "large dojo, high quality" ? isn't it much trickier to run a large class while maintaining a standard of quality that doesn't bow down to market trends?

not directed to you butterfly...

If you are looking for advice on how to balance your books and run a business, your local chamber of commerce can provide you with nearly free training and resources....not to mention they can hook you up with other local business owners, social meetups, networking and whatnot. don't take my word for it - take a visit and ask.
The other aspect is information particular to your demographic that could make or break you. another reason to look for local info instead of a 'one size fits all' model.

Do some work and actually learn about small business management in your area - don't look for bulletpoint answers in some 2nd rate $100 mcdojo 'get-rich-quick' playbook that reads like a late-night "I did it, and so can YOU!" infomercial.

{I think right about now, the author will probably make a reappearance in this thread. sorry author, it was a fun read with the ancedotal stories, but too generic to be useful...and what was with all the "!" at the end of every sentance? }

#334714 - 09/19/07 12:12 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: Ed_Morris]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
As a side note, I visited a McDojo (same one I brought to your attention Ed when you were out this way...remember the kiddie parties with the fake swords) in which I was offered a free I showed up.

After going through everything there was a guy in the corner...a new BB in their system pistoning away at a very light bag. He sucked...miserably.

When I turned to the instructor with a somewaht tempered, but still quizzical look he said, and I quote:

"He just got his black belt and has been studying for a year. (Pause) I still have to make some money, it's a business." This was his excuse and rationalization for the quality of the student who he knew I thought was terrible for his rank.

This, by the way, is not suggesting this is true for any other for profit studio. I have seen very good schools that make money. Just a recognition that balancing profit and good instruction may come at an expense that the instructor has to measure. And that measurement is often done on a precipice over a chasm that would be very hard to extricate yourself from once you slid down those steep walls.

#334715 - 09/19/07 01:29 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: butterfly]
hkphooey Offline

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 12
Loc: California
Well, I am glad I did not reply with what I really thouhgt, b/c I had seen that he just got the book ~8/11. I wanted to see what he had to say. I missed the facetiousness and misread it as something less flattering. Sorry, Ed. I know these types of boards are filled with people who only write large and do little. I have little time for that. Thanks for the clarification. I don't know you guys, I have had negative experiences on this forum board and rarely post.

In response, I see the manual as a source of ideas. I still like the book, tho I have no intention of teaching toddlers, doing birthday parties, etc. I am just not interested in it and if I have to fake it, might as well not waste my time. I could spend my days faking enthusiasm at any J.O.B. Besides, I expect myself to teach with a quality that my instructor and his instructors will be proud of.

As far as some instructors watering things down to make more, what? Meaning, I see that in my day job, too. I see that in other areas. I think it happens more in m.a. b/c m.a. draws some kooks and it can bring out the worst in people. THAT is why the customs of behavior, courtesy, etc. are so important. But just b/c there are so many hucksters out there does not mean everyone is. I don't assume this author is, either. I don't know you guys and I don't know this author, it is just my opinion he has had an unfair bashing here. I don't like it and that is why I don't post. So why am I posting now? Great question. I am bowing out now.

Thanks for your replies, guys! I have found the discussion interesting.

#334716 - 09/19/07 03:55 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: hkphooey]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA


As far as some instructors watering things down to make more, what? Meaning, I see that in my day job, too.

And that's where I disagree with you. A job full of the crappiness in the cubicle is one thing (and though I may occassionally loaf, I do try hard at my crappy job) and the services rendered for that education are another thing entirely...especially for the student.

So you have a person learning from you and you tell him up front..."Hey, you are going to pay me for this instruction, but just to be frank with you, I am gonna "water this down" a bit so I can get paid...not give you my full attention or really try my hardest so that you'll learn. Please come back for your "Bud Light" experience at my dojo, but don't forget to bring your check book. I also accept Pay-pal."

Yep, that's all I need to know.

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