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#334667 - 07/13/05 01:26 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: BuDoc]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I'll go in half with you Budoc to minimize your (potential) loss.

I'm for giving the benefit of the doubt.
Being sceptical is not disrespectful. How someone voices scepticism can sound appologies if I sounded that way.

#334668 - 07/13/05 04:56 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: BuDoc]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Kudos to Page for putting his Mastercard where his mouth is and doing some research for us poor slobs.

Definitely let us know what your take on it is, Page.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#334669 - 08/01/05 11:36 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: MattJ]
martialway Offline

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 83
Loc: nj
so do you guys have a review of it now?

#334670 - 08/04/05 09:54 AM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: martialway]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad

It has not even been delivered yet. This is not a good start to impressing me

Kintama and I are discussing the matter privately. I'll let you know what shakes out!

Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

#334671 - 08/04/05 12:30 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: MN JC]
MAGr Offline

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
250 students!!!

If you have 250 students do you really need a book to tell you how to make money???

Any moron can make money from 250 students without sacrificing costs. Its called economies of scale. The average cost incurred per student gets less as the number of students increase. Why? Because fixed costs such as rent get spread over a large number of students. So when you had 40 students charging them 100 each you payed 50 into costs so 50 remained for you. The costs change by very little with every new student but the money you get is still 100. Eventually you will get 100 from each student but only pay 20 for each student, leaving you with 80. If you do some correct cost planning with expanion (more instructors more salaries etc etc) you can also afford to start advertising more heavily.
Its not a secret formula for gods sake.
All that is required is someone with the right knowledge about cost and profits, you dont even need the right knowledge just some experience, and a business model that you intend to follow.
The most important thing is getting the venue (dojo), after that its all down to quality teaching and word of mouth and advertising. Not some crappy business formula. I bet you anything, I can tell you all the stuff the book says, but just dressed with less fancy crap. You have to remember the guy who wrote the book didnt write it to help all the poor dojo owners, he wrote it to make money!
So, yes there are strategies that you can pursue without sacrificing quality, but they should be quite obvious. All that is required is to sit down withsomeone who has a head for maths and calculate osts and expenditures.

For example.
Dude X has 20 students each paying 100 per month.
(in reality you have to include sales of gi's and camps and whatever else you do)
That means revenue of 2,000 a month
say rent and electricity is fixed at 1,000 a month.
That means that you are making yourself 1,000 a month.
Which is not that much to live with.

From salary that you take out a loan for 10,000
5,000 is spent on advertising and 5,000 on paying the salary of a new instructor for the next 5 months.

Say that through the advertising you get an influx of another 20 students immediately on the first day of the new month (highly unrealistic but good enough for our purpose)
From those 20 students you get the fee of the 100 and therefore make 2,000 on what you made before. But you dont have any extra costs. so you get 3,000 a month now.
1,000 for you, 1,000 for the extra instructor and 1,000 to go towards paying back the loan.
You still have the 5,000 left because you got the influx of the students through the advertising and therefore payed the new instroctur through that. So with that 5,000 you can split it into two, 2,500 goes to a new add campaign, not with some better targeting, and 2,500 goes towardsarranging some more classes for the future, some extra equipment to deal with the student influx etc.

You see from the EXTREMELY simplified model above that it really isnt that hard to do it yourself if you re4ally wanted to. In more cases though people want to teach to transmit the art not to get loads of money therefore people feel the need to educate sifu wiht small basement dojos. When in fact they themeselves dont care about the money, and the sifus who do care about the money dont need to buy the book to be successfull at what they do.

Basically, all those books are a poor excuse for not attending a simple accountancy course. There are so many variables that a book could not possibly cover all that is there. What if you have a venue, what if you want to buy one, what if you are renting and want to buy one, what if you ahve nothing, what if you have summer camps twice a year, what if you want to keep the ration of instructors to students high, what if equipment involves shipping stuff from china or japan. What if this and that. Those books that claim to provide formulas are crap, WHY? BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW THE VARIABLES, SO HOW CAN THEY KNOW THE FORMULA???

Edited by MAGr (08/04/05 12:58 PM)

#334672 - 08/10/05 10:32 AM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: MAGr]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Still have not received my copy of "Dumb Book, Fast Buck!"

I ordered it a month ago!

Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

#334673 - 08/10/05 03:12 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: BuDoc]
MN JC Offline

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 189
Loc: Coon Rapids, MN USA
For some strange reason I am not suprised. I noticed that Mike Massie has not posted in a long time also. Maybe he is trying to beef the book up for you?

I hope that he tells the readers of his book to provide better service than this.

Again, Page, thank you for being the one who stuck your neck out and ordered this.
--------------- Dream it, Live it, Be it! (What is it?) -John

#334674 - 08/11/05 11:59 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: MN JC]
martialway Offline

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 83
Loc: nj
if i had 250 students i wouldn't have time for ebay either.... then again if i had 250 students i wouldnt need to hawk my entire business strategy on ebay either.

#334675 - 08/15/05 04:08 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: Mike_Massie]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I went ahead and filed a complaint with the BBB and e-bay.
BuDoc, if you bought this thru e-bay, you have some protection against crooks and might be able to get some/all money back. I'll PM you the info if there is no response from him in 1 week.


Hi Davera,

In response to the assertions that my business manual is a business plan for running a McDojo, it's the furthest thing from it.

Apparently so, since this book seems to indiscriminately huxtor non-mcdojo's as well.

The whole reason why I wrote the books was because I had been through years of seeing industry "experts" teaching unethical business practices to novice school owners, and I got sick of it. So, I wrote a book geared specifically to showing the small studio owner that you can make a decent living teaching real martial arts without having to be a sell-out.

right. and the way to do that is to sell invisible books on e-bay.


If you want to buy the book, send me an email to and I'll tell you how to get it, and if you don't like it I'll give you a full refund.

uh-huh. pull the other one.


However, everyone who has read it has had nothing but good things to say about it, so I think you'll find it to be of use.

I bet. since no one has read it.


Best regards and no hard feelings on the "McDojo" cracks,

none taken. to attribute your book with mcdojo's would be a disservice to mcdojo's. at least they provide a false service, whereas you provide no service at all.


Mike Massie
author, "Small Dojo, Big Profits"

I notice your name is an anagram for 'I Make Messi'...and the book title a euphamism for 'Small Net, Big Fish'.

Are you going to be a spineless jellyfish, or will you give the man his money back?

#334676 - 08/15/05 10:53 PM Re: Small Dojo, Big Profits Manual [Re: Kintama]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA

I notice your name is an anagram for 'I Make Messi'

Kintama, I see that your absence has not degraded your sense of humor, this one still has me giggling. Welcome back old chum.

Oh yeah, and give Page his money back!!
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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