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#331963 - 04/02/07 10:04 PM Re: Silat [Re: Victor Smith]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Am I understanding what you're saying here? That the "closed" silat teachings are different than the "open" silat teachings?

Are you also implying that the "closed" silat teachings contain more, effective or, secret techniques and teachings?

How would the open teachings perhaps differ from the closed teachings, in your opinion?


-John

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#331964 - 04/02/07 10:40 PM Re: Silat [Re: JKogas]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
John,

I'm sure I'm not using the best words for this, but what I call the open teachings are the basic movement studies. The closed teachings were the applications and in the art I studied they had nothing to do with the movement studies.

Thus if you watched the juru, you could not guess what the actual studies (which were only shared and practiced in private) were. The juru beyond the movement education were simply mnemonic devices for strings of different techniques.

I have no idea if other siliat traditions do the same or not. Likely there are many different paths within Silat.

In Indonesia membership in the group training, which I saw a little, was only opened when a member was deceased. That really keeps that group close. It was all a closed tradition, but the basic drills were just that, basics and the art was different.

I see glimpses of some of my instructors techniques within the video clips, but I haven't found anything remotely the same as his art.

Then again I'm not a Silat practitioner, too old and rigid when I began those studies, but what I did study is extremely effective and I keep them up.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#331965 - 04/02/07 10:52 PM Re: Silat [Re: JKogas]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
John.
Is'nt it more like..

White 3 stripes

Blue 14 stripes

Purple 42 stripes

Brown and then


NOT NVER... black





I'm jes plAyin wid ya

BTW I've never asked. Do you hold rank in BJJ?

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#331966 - 04/02/07 11:37 PM Re: Silat [Re: oldman]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

John.
Is'nt it more like..

White 3 stripes

Blue 14 stripes

Purple 42 stripes

Brown and then


NOT NVER... black








Something like that, yes.


Quote:


BTW I've never asked. Do you hold rank in BJJ?




No, I have no belt rank in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. But as I never wear a gi, I have no belt to wear anyway. And not many folks rank you "no-gi".

I'll get over my aversion to the gi one day and wear one long enough to see where I rank. Otherwise I'm not into the whole "colored belt" thing. It's kind of goofy in a way and in a way it isn't.

As far as where I stand, I would put myself at "purple" if I had to guess. I've rolled with a boatload of blues and purples, one brown belt and a couple of black belts.

I've handled most of the blues I've rolled with and have hung with many purples. The one brown made me wear a gi and ate my lunch. The black belts basically toyed with me, lol Wouldn't have mattered WHAT I wore...

I'm really not at that much into the belt rank thing or I'd have done something about it right now. I guess since I've just come up more as a wrestler, I've always stayed with that mindset. I understand the BJJ game completely and adhere to that approach. But I probably couldn't do SQUAT in a kimono if my very LIFE depended on it.


-John

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#331967 - 04/05/07 05:28 AM Re: Silat [Re: Victor Smith]
DasaMan Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1
Quote:

The reality of political thought reflects in the dangerousness of Indonesian life even today. I can only speculate why they practice, but I doubt in Indonesia it's for art's sake.




Hello, I'm from Indonesia. Don't mind me sharing my Rp2.

It's nice to see that some romanticised idea on silat practice is still around, but truth to be told, in urban areas, silat is pretty much marginalised these days. Old, antiquated, irrelevant.

Like most places, people are starting to look into MMA. The relative few that practice silat do it either because they don't have access to any other art or out of the drive to preserve silat as cultural legacy.

This is of course, the cynical city boy view of the matter.

On the other hand, my Judo/Sambo instructor highly touts silat entries as effective for kumi kata, gi or no gi. It doesn't hurt that he is that close to being the headmaster of a certain silat style.

-- Dimas S.

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#331968 - 05/06/07 06:14 PM Re: Silat [Re: Victor Smith]
Wali Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 5
Loc: London
Let's not over-generalise. The Satria Fighting Arts we pracrtice (Incorporating the WaliSongo silat), has a ground game on par with any BJJ school. We regularly roll with BJJ guys and give an excellent account.

I realise that a lot of silat in the US has lost a lot of the ground game, but in some schools abroad, this is very important.

The ground has it's place, but it's not the end all of all fighting. We don't even have to use the old "Battlefield Art" adage. The ground game for example, would be totally useless in a mass brawl in any modern city today.

For anyone interested (all styles), we'll be hosting a series of seminars in LA in the next month, and one of them will specifically be ground fighting and grappling (The silat way). You'll be amazed at how similar a lot of it is to BJJ. Our Kura-Kura (turtle), is very similar to the traditional 'Guard' position, etc, etc... At the end of the day, the body can only move and position itself into so many postures.

Cheers,
Wali

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#331969 - 05/20/07 05:03 PM Re: Silat [Re: Wali]
Boomer Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 304
Loc: York, Pa
Quote:

The ground has it's place, but it's not the end all of all fighting. We don't even have to use the old "Battlefield Art" adage. The ground game for example, would be totally useless in a mass brawl in any modern city today.





Well said.
_________________________
Calling yourself "Master" implies that you have slaves.

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#331970 - 05/26/07 05:18 PM Re: Silat [Re: oldcoach]
shantungks Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 38
You guys are judging silat from sport perpective. True silat is not trained nor practice for sport. !5 years ago a blue belt in BJJ walked into a silat school. Lets just say he was lucky could even walk. all it took was 10 seconds and his neck was almost snapped. In the U.S. there are very few true silat teachers and they do not teach openly. Up to this date only 4 do but not everything. Many years they have taught, only one or two students have finished their curriculum.
Royce Gracie is good, but not that good. They are places in Indonesia where they would be glad to take on any world champion and of course place their skull next to the rest of their collection of throphies. Out of the whole Gracie Family only Rickson could actually survive a very good Silat fighter. He has the look and will of a warrior. By silat fighter I mean someone who has trained very hard that knows what is like to break or have a broken bone and has trained long hours. Not someone who goes and trains twice a week at some building.

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#331971 - 05/26/07 05:46 PM Re: Silat [Re: shantungks]
shantungks Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 38

Before 1950 Silat was still practice for what it was meant to be and that to kill as fast as possible not to score a take down or a point. Today in Indonesia is mostly sport Silat that you see. True or old silat can be found still in very remote areas. I know of an area near Kendang Mountain were you might find some still. Many were kill in the 60s during the rise of civil wars. Many fled to Holland ans some are in the U.S. One has better odds of finding a teacher of real silat in the U.S. Not anyone can take the training and therefore not everyone even goes pass 3 years of training with them. They usually trian in their house or some isolated area or a basement.

But is not the forms, jurus, langkas but how you train. I know at least 5 silat practioners that can handle themselves against anyone from any style. Rolling with someone sounds like sport competition. That is like me sparring with foam knives againts a Sayoc teacher. Roll is to play around and in a fight only one walks away alive. This is the reason true or real silat is not taught openly. No games, no BS. True silat involves hours of combat with no protection and understanding of the forms. Within this training there is a lot of learning about the human body, both is strengths and weaknesses. A lot of body conditioning to the point when the day you can sink your fingers into a coconut there is nothing else you cannot stick them into.
My opinion and my own personal experience. I cannot sink my fingers into a coconut yet but I know many angles and methods to snap the bones in the body and to tear ligaments away within seconds. Also I was taught how to repair them. This is true Silat.
About Dan Inosanto he is not a closed door student. He was and is taught by the best but he is not a closed door student. He can roll if that is what you want. But fight? Fighting is for kids.

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#331972 - 05/27/07 10:35 AM Re: Silat [Re: shantungks]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
I recently ran across the following two silat video's that in part resemble the training I had with Tristan Sutrsno.

Silat Harimau
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfF7llJxDFc
Harimau Silat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trNrT1hXb-4

They are what they are, a visit of one layer of this training.


Edited by Victor Smith (05/27/07 10:36 AM)
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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