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#330940 - 03/27/07 12:06 AM Eugue Ryu
Karate_Jutsu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 5
Before anyone says anything, this is not a made up style. Everyone seems to think that it is.

We are an Ohio based school, with branches in Kansas, Texas, as well as England.

With roots which lead back to back to White Crane, Naha-Te, Shuri-Te, and Tomari-Te, which are the original. Founded by Kensenzue Yamaeugue, and brought back to America by a man named Ray Flowers. We do not know too much about our founder, but we are constantly searching for information. Ray Flowers taught Terry James, who taught Oscar Adams, who taught, Steven Williams, who taught my Senseis. This the lineage as was told me by my Sensei.

We are stil looking for other students and teachers, so that we may get to know other Eugue Ryu practitioners, and to get as much information as possible together.

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#330941 - 03/27/07 12:50 AM Re: Eugue Ryu [Re: Karate_Jutsu]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Karate_Jutsu,
Hello neighbor. Good luck on your search for other Eugue Ryu practitioners. Welcome to Fightingarts.
There are many practioners on this site that have a voracious appetite for martial history. I'm sure they will be eager to help you find out more about your style if they can.

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#330942 - 03/27/07 02:37 AM Re: Eugue Ryu [Re: Karate_Jutsu]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
welcome!

could you tell us what the translation/origin of the word 'Eugue' is please?

also what kata are practise in your system?

Be interested to find out more about the ryu.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#330943 - 03/27/07 05:03 AM Re: Eugue Ryu [Re: Karate_Jutsu]
Toudiyama Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 229
Loc: Zaandam, Netherlands
Please define "Made up Art"
From what I see on http://www.answers.com/topic/eugue-ryu-karate-jutsu
this is a combination of jujutsu and mainly Shotokan karate
I know it sez Okinawan Karate but to my knowledge no okinawan school uses oi tsuki as term

As stated in the Answrs article, not alot is known about the founder, actually the answer page it the only hit on his name ( this one hasn't been indexed yet)

so we only know he is a ju jutsu man, not what style of ju jutsu, not where he studied Karate or what style(s)

because of this it could very well be a made up style, just because the faunder is an Asian person doen't make that any different ( nor does being a westerner automatically qualify your style as "made up")

Again "made up" isn't saying anything, remember the first martial artist made styles up after observing nature

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#330944 - 03/27/07 10:23 AM Re: Eugue Ryu [Re: Karate_Jutsu]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=15852888&an=0&page=17

I did some cross searches of the names surrounding the styles and people you mention...have to admit, first impression isn't good - in one way or another, most leads are dead-ends and many seems to tie in with various soke-ship councils.

If it's a 'Ryu', then that means it must be or have been studied in Japan/Okinawa at one time or at present. I'm guessing it's not, nor ever has. If the founder and transmitter of it can't be located, then there is no sense of even trying to claim legitimacy.

If there is any truth to "Kensenzue Yamaeugue" even being a real person. The only indication of what might have been passed down is the kata of the system. It appears Pinan & Naihanchi, Kusanku and Seiuchin and Sanchin.


However, reading here:
http://pub10.bravenet.com/forum/835114607/show/950850
sortof gives the sense of some history behind the style, at least a generation anyway.

sifting thru, I got the sense of the style being from a Shotokan-based art of Korean origin....then later other Budo Arts added.

The name Oscar Adams comes up here:
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2173.html
which references him tied to the Armed Forces Judo Association as yudansha in the Navy during the 60's.


I'm envisioning this complete guess: Ray Flowers, Terry James, and Oscar Adams all served overseas and brought back Korean Shotokan, Judo and perhaps an Okinawan art such as Goju. They perhaps collaborated/shared and went their own ways. Oscar Adams teaches Williams during the 80's, Mr. Williams later corroberates with others and forms/names Eugue Ryu in the 90's.

most likely, it IS "made up". In fact, Mr. Williams' own daughter says so in the link I gave.
Quote:

Let me just start by saying that floor work is a very important part of Eugue Ryu karate. It teaches discipline, focus, and endurance. If you do not see it that way, then you are not learing a true Eugue Ryu style and should look else where. My father, Steven Williams, helped start this style in KC and taught Mr. Jones, Mr. Hess and Mr. Baswell. By what I have heard over the last few years, some of those people are holding true to what they were taught, others were not. ...




Thats not a bad thing. It's only a 'bad' thing if people lie and join sokeships for rank to try and legitimize on paper what they do and have learned (or not learned) on the mat. "Making up" an Art by making it your own is never the problem - I'm sure Eugue Ryu is as in-depth as any other has to offer. and I'm sure, like all other Arts...there are good and bad eggs.

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#330945 - 03/27/07 04:23 PM Re: Eugue Ryu [Re: Karate_Jutsu]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
How do you pronounce the name?

Using a Japanese pronunciation, it would sound like this:
"eh-oo-goo-eh". This doesn't sound anything remotely Japanese (or Okinawan). If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time but I have a hunch someone slaughtered the name YEARS ago.

Do you have an example of the Kanji so a member well-versed in the language can have a shot @ it?

I have to go w/ Ed on this one. How many people used to claim that their ancestors "came across on the Mayflower" just to build status? Nothing wrong w/ making up a style but chances are high that it's already been done before & any changes, additions or concepts are too minor to be considered "new". That leaves ego as the primary component for becoming soke.

owari

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#330946 - 03/27/07 09:24 PM Re: Eugue Ryu [Re: hedkikr]
Karate_Jutsu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 5
When Mrs. Williams says that her father started this style in KC, what she means, is that he was the first to bring this style to the Kansas City Area. I train with Senseis Hess, Jones, and Baswell. Their teacher was Mr. Steve Williams, who was taught by Oscar Adams, who was taught by Terry James, who was taught by Ray Flowers. We know that Mr. Flowers brought this style back from Korea. But, we do not know when Kensenzue Yamaeugue lived. And I am pretty sure that his Jujutsu, would have been a family art, passed down, generation to generation. And when i have the chance I will upload the kanji.


Edited by Karate_Jutsu (03/27/07 09:26 PM)

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#330947 - 03/27/07 09:34 PM Re: Eugue Ryu [Re: Karate_Jutsu]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Quote:

With roots which lead back to back to White Crane




I have never heard of your style, but I know that 'White Crane' is a current Fad being used as the ultimate form.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#330948 - 03/27/07 09:42 PM Re: Eugue Ryu [Re: Karate_Jutsu]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
KJ,
As I look at available histories the first place the lineage seems to break down a bit is during Mr. Flowers time in Korea.

Quote:

This is apporximitly when Ray Flowers befriended a local and began learning the art of Eugue Ryu.




Do you know the name of the local that taught Mr. Flowers in Korea and what length of time he studied with him?

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#330949 - 03/27/07 10:33 PM Re: Eugue Ryu [Re: oldman]
Karate_Jutsu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 5
I definately do not believe that White Crane is an ultimate Form. It is an Chinese Martial Art, and it is what Okinawan karate is based from. And I am still trying to find out the name of the local that taught Mr. Flowers.

Wish me luck.

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