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#330875 - 03/27/07 10:57 PM Re: depressing story, click at risk [Re: budobrubbie]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Gino,

I trust your expert opinion on the matter.

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#330876 - 03/28/07 08:54 AM Re: depressing story, click at risk [Re: budobrubbie]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Quote:

As someone who has treated sex offenders for the past ten years (and most of them cannot be treated, no matter what the mental health profession says), I strongly advocate for changing the law. Longer prison sentences for first time sex offenders. Depending on the circumstances (level of violence, coercion and intimidation, and age and number of victims, etc.), you could even be locked up for life.




The thing is that as much as one would hate to admit it, it may not be a mental disorder, but rather just a different way of thinking so therefore it is not treatable like an actual mental health problem would be.
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#330877 - 03/28/07 09:14 AM Re: depressing story, click at risk [Re: clmibb]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Good thing I don't make the laws in any country




...about time they bring back a 3500 year old law....an eye for an eye...
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#330878 - 03/28/07 04:00 PM Re: depressing story, click at risk [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
budobrubbie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Thanks Oldman, but I'm hardly an expert. And although pedophilia actually is a mental disorder, I know what you guys mean. Some behaviors and attitudes develop as a result of environmental, cultural and educational deprivation, and this entire family's deviance substaniates that position. This family has probably been abusing each other, as well as people outside the family, for many years. With pedophiles, it's all a metter of power and control. And there is no treatment, because there's very little motivation to change. For example, imagine that heterosexuality is now a felony offense, even punishable by years of prison, and someone was trying to convince you to stop engaging in that form of sexual behavior. Think you could?

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#330879 - 03/28/07 04:14 PM Re: depressing story, click at risk [Re: budobrubbie]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Quote:

For example, imagine that heterosexuality is now a felony offense, even punishable by years of prison, and someone was trying to convince you to stop engaging in that form of sexual behavior. Think you could?





My wife seems to think I could.



I'm currently living in a half way house...

I can't convince her to go all the way.



Thank you ... Thank you . You've been a great audience







Just a little comic relief guys.

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#330880 - 03/28/07 04:25 PM Re: depressing story, click at risk [Re: budobrubbie]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Very good point.

Wow, I have to say I'm amazed at reading this but I'm not. My wife is a big crime buff and horrors like this and worse I've heard, read and seen on TV. The death penalty is too good for these people and they should be made to suffer. Instead of harming innocent animals for testing they should use trash like this. Or perhaps do disease testing like Aids or something. As far as I'm concerned by doing this they took away any humanity they had and therefore no longer fit a human's profile and therefore they have no rights and should become the property of the state to do with how they feel. Appalling ... poor child ... poor poor child. I will shed a tear for him.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#330881 - 03/28/07 05:01 PM Re: depressing story, click at risk [Re: budobrubbie]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
I'm not oldman!....Or am I?

Anyway, I was thinking that from a psycological point of view, within a average, modern western family you have certain societal expectations, one being that if you are married (as the average 'family' would be), then you do not engage with sexual activity with anyone other than to whom you are married to, plus the other expectation of never having sexual interacton with children as this is often frowned upon, plus the will to raise the child as best as you can into a decent person which subconsciously ingrains the role of 'parent'.
All these factors are taken in subconsciously and prevents any 'will' being directed towards the child.
However, there are stories of parents and children being seperated for years due to some court ruling where the child is put into foster care or adopted, only to meet again when the law no longer prevents the child contacting their parents, they meet up and then get it on...

Why is this? I think it could possibly be because they don't see eachother as relatives, they know they are technically, they have the paper work to prove it.
But they don't subconsciously see it that way becuase they have not lived or grown together as parent and child, as far as they are concerned they are just two conscenting adults who happen to have the same last name.
I know this does not directly go hand in hand with pedophilia, but it's just giving an example of point of view VS psycological disorder.

Recently I read that the recently concieved "children loving community" (pedophiles) are trying to justify their "sexuality" to be on par with that of the GLBT community (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender community), meaning that they wish to be acknowleged to being "born like it" just as the GLBT community has been, rather than having a "mental disorder".
This has caused quite the uproar in both the straight and GLBT communities since unlike straight and GLBT relationships who's participants are both 'adult' and 'conscenting' people who are mature enough to make their own decisions (etc), one of the parties involved is a young child who is too young to understand what's truly going on.

The Straight and GLBT communities also fear that should the pedophiles be acknowledged as such, then this may pave the way for the law to be changed in their favour, meaning our children could be in a 'LEGAL' relationship with a pedophile.

Now thaankfully it seems that no such acknowledgment will be given in the foreseeable future, but the issue did raise some questions about the morales on which the refusal was based upon, for example, suppose that the pedophiles were right in that they were born like they were and didn't have any kind of mental condition.
Could it then be that we could be committing crimes against them? That we are persecuting them for being themselves just as society did the GLBT communtity?

Regardless of the case, it doesn't change the fact that there are innoent children involved, so worries of that.

And about the power and control issue, does this count as a mental condition?

I have heard cases of guys who claim to be 100% straight commit rape crimes against other men because they were openly gay, this type of thing was thought to be an issue of power and control, not a sexual issue, just a sadistic mans of expessing their resentment for somthing outside their understanding.
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#330882 - 03/29/07 08:41 AM Re: depressing story, click at risk [Re: Dereck]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Dereck, while I agree with you, I still deem it bad for karma to treat them the same way they treated someone else. Imagine if I was the scientist who carried out those experiments, would I be any better than those people except I have the backing of the government?

It's a bit of an issue here. Are executioners murderers? Some deem so, some don't.

For me, those people deserve nothing than to be treated like an object, and just put so much misery that nothing can compare with it. Ever.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#330883 - 03/29/07 11:42 AM Re: depressing story, click at risk [Re: Taison]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I brought the article home for my wife and she knew immediately about this and when she started relating what she seen/heard I believe there were a few F-Bombs used. You have to understand my wife is one of those nice people that is always happy and life never seems to get them down. She is the happiest and nicest person I know so when she starts talking like this then you know she is moved.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#330884 - 03/29/07 05:04 PM Re: depressing story, click at risk [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
budobrubbie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Can't believe I'm talking shop on a martial arts forum. Most of these pedophiles try to BS or intimidate us in therapy, but we have our tricks of the trade, as well. You'll be pleased to know that, in prison, pedophiles are absolute lowest of the low and usually get their come-uppance from the general prison population. Either that, or solitary confinement for the duration of their term. Rent the movie "Short Eyes", it was filmed in the Tombs in NYC, you'll get some vicarious pleasure from that film. Dauragon - Interesting post. Haven't read much about estranged parent-child sexual relationships, unless that relationship existed before the separation. Usually, from the offending adult's perspective, they justify their actions by claiming that they're "teaching" the child about sex and intimacy, and some other nonsense. The abused child will tell you that he/she receives tenderness, attention and affection from an adult, and it makes some of them feel special. Of course, this is one of the sadder dynamics, and illustrates the thinking errors these people actually have. Speaking of thinking errors, you mentioned "child-loving communities" and one of the most infamous is the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA); they'll really make your skin crawl. The members use all of the thinking errors common to sex offenders, to justify why society should not only tolerate, but APPROVE of their actions. They even have regular meetings in some of the larger cities here in the US. Now, don't go down there to kick their a$$, guys.

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