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#330674 - 03/28/07 03:41 AM Re: POLL: Styles of Ju Jutsu Represented on FA [Re: Prizewriter]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

In fact, I remember one poster in particular poster who claimed he had never heard of Ju Jutsu originating in Japan, and that "Jiu Jitsu" came from Brazil!!




Can't blame him. . I remember a guy who thought boxing came from USA, and another who thought Greco-Roman wrestling was Greek.

(For those who don't know, boxing comes from England and Greco-Roman wrestling is French).

I wonder what's next?

-Taison out
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I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#330675 - 03/29/07 01:35 PM Re: POLL: Styles of Ju Jutsu Represented on FA [Re: Taison]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
BJJ for sure that is stand alone from my regular training and also trained within my regular training of TKD curriculum. Also influences from Ketto-Ryu Jujitsu as this was one of many of my Instructor's outside training and acquiring of a black belt.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#330676 - 05/24/07 12:38 PM Re: POLL: Styles of Ju Jutsu Represented on FA [Re: celest]
bigeasy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 19
I'm currently training in Daito Ryu Aiki Jujutsu (mainline), but have trained in Shingitai in the past.

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#330677 - 05/25/07 12:00 AM Re: POLL: Styles of Ju Jutsu Represented on FA [Re: Prizewriter]
Armed_Man_Piker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 440
Loc: East Coast U.S.A.
LMAO--this is the "Judo/Jujutsu" forum, and BJJ is not listed for this particular poll... what's up with that?
_________________________
And the rapier blades, being so narrow and of so small substance, and made of a very hard temper to fight in private frays... do presently break and so become unprofitable. --Sir John Smythe, 1590

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#330678 - 05/25/07 10:21 AM Re: POLL: Styles of Ju Jutsu Represented on FA [Re: Armed_Man_Piker]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

LMAO--this is the "Judo/Jujutsu" forum, and BJJ is not listed for this particular poll... what's up with that?




BJJ is considered to fall under the MMA forum, although I understand what you mean. This forum generally works the "non-BJJ" end of the spectrum.
_________________________
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#330679 - 05/25/07 12:38 PM Re: POLL: Styles of Ju Jutsu Represented on FA [Re: Prizewriter]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Quote:

Quote:

If a lot of folks practice Brazilian jiu-jitsu as I do, there will be a lot of "other" represented in this poll.


-John




Thought long and hard about putting it up, but decided against it. One of my pet peeves is a lot of newbs post here re BJJ, referring to it simply as "Jiu Jitsu", rather than going to the BJJ/Grappling forum.

In fact, I remember one poster in particular poster who claimed he had never heard of Ju Jutsu originating in Japan, and that "Jiu Jitsu" came from Brazil!!



I didn't want to add to the confusion by sticking a BJJ option. If I did, it could make things worse with newbs posting in the Judo/JJ forum about BJJ.

I figured if any BJJ practioner really wanted to contribute, they could click other and add a post. Of course BJJ is a modern style of JJ. But for all newbies reading this, there is a dedicated forum for it!!!




AMP


Have a read at this... it is my explanation I posted earlier in the thread. Hope this answers your question.

Regards

PW
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#330680 - 05/25/07 06:35 PM Re: POLL: Styles of Ju Jutsu Represented on FA [Re: Prizewriter]
Armed_Man_Piker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 440
Loc: East Coast U.S.A.
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If a lot of folks practice Brazilian jiu-jitsu as I do, there will be a lot of "other" represented in this poll.


-John




Thought long and hard about putting it up, but decided against it. One of my pet peeves is a lot of newbs post here re BJJ, referring to it simply as "Jiu Jitsu", rather than going to the BJJ/Grappling forum.

In fact, I remember one poster in particular poster who claimed he had never heard of Ju Jutsu originating in Japan, and that "Jiu Jitsu" came from Brazil!!



I didn't want to add to the confusion by sticking a BJJ option. If I did, it could make things worse with newbs posting in the Judo/JJ forum about BJJ.

I figured if any BJJ practioner really wanted to contribute, they could click other and add a post. Of course BJJ is a modern style of JJ. But for all newbies reading this, there is a dedicated forum for it!!!




AMP


Have a read at this... it is my explanation I posted earlier in the thread. Hope this answers your question.

Regards

PW






I read your "explanation" before I put up my original post, PW.


With all due respect, BJJ is derived directly from pre-1925 judo, and thus there's no logical reason why it shouldn't be listed on a poll on the "Judo/Jujutsu" forum. And the fact that judo is also missing from your poll is perhaps even more odd.
_________________________
And the rapier blades, being so narrow and of so small substance, and made of a very hard temper to fight in private frays... do presently break and so become unprofitable. --Sir John Smythe, 1590

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#330681 - 05/25/07 08:08 PM Re: POLL: Styles of Ju Jutsu Represented on FA [Re: Armed_Man_Piker]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
AWP

Thanks for taking the time to read it. I am well aware of both the origins of Judo and BJJ. However, as has been pointed out, there is another forum on here for BJJ. Simple as that. For the few years I have been here, I have seen far too many people coming on this forum with BJJ queries, and making assumptions that BJJ is the only kind of Ju Jutsu. Regrettably, not all posters are as well versed in martial history as your good self. This had lead to a lot of unnecessary thread movement and occasional irritation between members.

This is a poll for Ju Jutsu. Judo is a popular martial art and sport. There are a lot of Judoka on here, and it is very likely they outnumber those who practice Ju Jutsu. However, that is not the information I sought to gain. And as you have read, there is a provision for BJJ in here if someone, like you feels compelled to register on this poll.

I have explained my reasoning. I am the author of the poll, I decided what I wanted to include. If you wish to gain information about Judo or BJJ and the people who practice them, you will find an excellent opportunity to do so on FA forums. You just won't find in my thread/poll.

The "logic" behind this is quite simple. The bulk of the material on this forum relates to Judo. Even outside this forum, there are many posts/threads about Judo. The posts/threads on these forums relating to Judo far and away surpass those about Ju Jutsu, not of course including BJJ. Speaking of BJJ, the post/threads relating to BJJ on the Grappling forum (the forum for BJJ) and throughout the rest of the forums dwarf even the amount of Judo posts on here. What we have is a lot of posts/threads about Judo and BJJ. What I was after was information about Ju Jutsu arts that aren't talked about as much.

Now, in no way is this Poll designed to infer that Judo or BJJ are any less derived from classical Ju Jutsu than other arts listed. Not at all. The reasons they haven't been included relate to FA forum members, not the arts themselves. As I recalled to Taison earlier, we had a rather angry young man on here once who proceeded to tell people that Ju Jutsu wasn't from Japan, it was from Brazil, and was invented in the 20th century. For a generation of MMA enthusiasts, "Jiu Jitsu" is simply BJJ, nothing else came before or after. I was very careful in what I included in the Poll as I didn't want to draw any of those kinds of posts here. By not including BJJ, I hope that anyone who considers BJJ as the only sort of Jiu Jitsu sees it missing from the list and wonders why. They see the other options available, and who knows, they might do a bit of research and learn something. I am the eternal optomist lol!

May I make a polite suggestion? You could create a poll in the Grappling forum to see who does what type of grappling if that is what you wish to know e.g. how many people do BJJ, Freestyle wrestling, Sambo/Sombo, Graeco-Roman et al...

Respectfully,

PW


Edited by Prizewriter (05/25/07 08:34 PM)
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#330682 - 05/26/07 04:48 PM Re: POLL: Styles of Ju Jutsu Represented on FA [Re: Prizewriter]
Armed_Man_Piker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 440
Loc: East Coast U.S.A.
Quote:

AWP

Thanks for taking the time to read it. I am well aware of both the origins of Judo and BJJ. However, as has been pointed out, there is another forum on here for BJJ. Simple as that. For the few years I have been here, I have seen far too many people coming on this forum with BJJ queries, and making assumptions that BJJ is the only kind of Ju Jutsu. Regrettably, not all posters are as well versed in martial history as your good self. This had lead to a lot of unnecessary thread movement and occasional irritation between members.

This is a poll for Ju Jutsu. Judo is a popular martial art and sport. There are a lot of Judoka on here, and it is very likely they outnumber those who practice Ju Jutsu. However, that is not the information I sought to gain. And as you have read, there is a provision for BJJ in here if someone, like you feels compelled to register on this poll.

I have explained my reasoning. I am the author of the poll, I decided what I wanted to include. If you wish to gain information about Judo or BJJ and the people who practice them, you will find an excellent opportunity to do so on FA forums. You just won't find in my thread/poll.

The "logic" behind this is quite simple. The bulk of the material on this forum relates to Judo. Even outside this forum, there are many posts/threads about Judo. The posts/threads on these forums relating to Judo far and away surpass those about Ju Jutsu, not of course including BJJ. Speaking of BJJ, the post/threads relating to BJJ on the Grappling forum (the forum for BJJ) and throughout the rest of the forums dwarf even the amount of Judo posts on here. What we have is a lot of posts/threads about Judo and BJJ. What I was after was information about Ju Jutsu arts that aren't talked about as much.

Now, in no way is this Poll designed to infer that Judo or BJJ are any less derived from classical Ju Jutsu than other arts listed. Not at all. The reasons they haven't been included relate to FA forum members, not the arts themselves. As I recalled to Taison earlier, we had a rather angry young man on here once who proceeded to tell people that Ju Jutsu wasn't from Japan, it was from Brazil, and was invented in the 20th century. For a generation of MMA enthusiasts, "Jiu Jitsu" is simply BJJ, nothing else came before or after. I was very careful in what I included in the Poll as I didn't want to draw any of those kinds of posts here. By not including BJJ, I hope that anyone who considers BJJ as the only sort of Jiu Jitsu sees it missing from the list and wonders why. They see the other options available, and who knows, they might do a bit of research and learn something. I am the eternal optomist lol!

May I make a polite suggestion? You could create a poll in the Grappling forum to see who does what type of grappling if that is what you wish to know e.g. how many people do BJJ, Freestyle wrestling, Sambo/Sombo, Graeco-Roman et al...

Respectfully,

PW





PW,

The impression I get from your thread is that you were trying to make a statement--i.e., that not all jujutsu is BJJ. There seems to be a fair amount of bitterness harbored in particular by practitioners of koryu jujutsu styles, who often take a rather condescending view of both BJJ and judo.

What many folks fail to see, however, is that Jigoro Kano arguably saved jujutsu from functional oblivion. By taking the best of various jujutsu schools, and by reintroducing a superior training methodology (based around randori), Kano clearly did a great deal to preserve these fighting arts.

BJJ is merely an offshoot of judo, with elements taken from Western CACC wrestling. Like judo, it emphasizes a functional training methodology.

Now, have you ever thought about why judo & BJJ topics are more common than those of other jujutsu methods? Rather than start a poll on the Grappling Forum, I'm actually tempted to start a poll on this Forum--which includes both judo and BJJ--and then it would be interesting to see what the ratios are. I suspect BJJ & judo practitioners would be more likely to reply if they saw their respective arts actually represented in the poll, as opposed to being dismissed simply as "Other"...


Peace,

A_M_P
_________________________
And the rapier blades, being so narrow and of so small substance, and made of a very hard temper to fight in private frays... do presently break and so become unprofitable. --Sir John Smythe, 1590

Top
#330683 - 05/26/07 08:09 PM Re: POLL: Styles of Ju Jutsu Represented on FA [Re: Armed_Man_Piker]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Wasn't so much trying to make a point as to try and find out how common Ju Jutsu was.

I will level with you, my main motivation was this: I have seen quite a few poor modern JJ schools in my area. They are of a very bad quality, and are usually a mix of judo a kickboxing tagged as Ju Jutsu for marketing purposes. Now, I have reason to beleive that in Western Society, it is quite rare that you will find a Koryu school of JJ, "classical" JJ if you will. If you look at the Poll, you will see what essentially are "classical" JJ schools (e.g. Datio Ryu, Yoshin Ryu) and more modern Schools (e.g. WJJF).

So far the Poll seems to support my notion that Koryu JJ is quite rare in Western Society.

Now, BJJ and Judo are verrryyy popular across the world. So I didn't see much point in including them as I knew that there were going to be a ton of responses.

For what it's worth, my Judo experience far outweighs my Ju Jutsu experience (which was mostly with the WJJF). I find Judo far more engaging as an art than the Ju Jutsu I have studied. Ditto my limited experience (all two classes of it!) with BJJ, I consdier BJJ a far more engaging form of JJ than anything I did with the WJJF.

Let me just go on record as saying I have the highest respect for Judo and BJJ, and consider them as fully JJ styles in their own right.

I just wanted to see if "classical" JJ is widely available in the West. Which, as I said, it doesn't seem to be.

Suppose at the end of the day I still could've found this out by including Judo and BJJ though. I just thought at the time that including such popular arts wouldn't really address my query.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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