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#330282 - 03/22/07 06:08 PM A Kiai Too Far! What Does Kiai Mean to You?
linhuck Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 10
Loc: Bedfordshire,UK
Hi everyone,

Just thought I would brighten up everybodys day. Well, it made me smile, sort of!

I just wrote an article about my thoughts on kiai, you may not agree with them, but scroll to the bottom of the article and watch the video. Click the link below.
Classic Karate?
A Video showing The Power Of Kiai

Ossu
Linhuck

PS I feel there's something very disturbing about the first clip!

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#330283 - 03/22/07 08:08 PM Re: A Kiai Too Far! What Does Kiai Mean to You? [Re: linhuck]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
It's an interesting clip for sure, staged - maybee but likely not from the way the Kiai Master got hit.

sad, but there you go - I think the world is begining to wake up to mumbo jumbo martial arts and for that I really do thank the MMA craze.

Of course taken out of a combat application context there is much to be said for 'other' practises, but im not there yet..........
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#330284 - 03/22/07 10:23 PM Re: A Kiai Too Far! What Does Kiai Mean to You? [Re: linhuck]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
the video doesn't have to do with kiai but shows the disillusion process ending with an injury. wonder how appologist students excused him out of that? He just had a bad Ki day?


about kiai...

I don't train vocal 'kiai'. but I see three common uses for it:

1. Demonstration dramatics (keeps the crowd and judges awake).

2. Tradition (for keeping up class spirit during larger group training. esp. kids classes).

3. 'War cry' (to invoke fear while releasing fear).

The sound used matters less than the emotion it seems to serve.

Technique-wise, a very short burst of air initiated from the quick contraction of the hara is suppossed to assist in training kime and sinking timed to breathing. after those principles are learned, kiai needn't be continued for that purpose.

Long sustained vocal dramatics from the lungs is just screaming....which is what most are taught to do.

Kiai at predetermined points in kata were arbitrarily set and became tradition when Karate was systemitized into Budo Art. do another sound or at other points in kata and traditionalists will tell you you're doing it 'wrong'....but they can't tell you technical reasons why.


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#330285 - 03/22/07 10:52 PM Re: A Kiai Too Far! What Does Kiai Mean to You? [Re: Ed_Morris]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I'm not a big fan of the kiai. I haven't used that in over 20 years and haven't missed it.


-John

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#330286 - 03/23/07 01:03 AM Re: A Kiai Too Far! What Does Kiai Mean to You? [Re: JKogas]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
The only kiai I do sounds like air coming out of my gloves. "shh" sounds when punching.

The only time I go "Ah!" is when I throw someone or ko someone (which is rare. I find myself being ko'ed all the time).

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#330287 - 03/23/07 05:26 AM Re: A Kiai Too Far! What Does Kiai Mean to You? [Re: Taison]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I still use verbal kiai as and when I wish, for training.

I also see it has use for self defense, certainly a vocal assistance to looking after yourself, and making others aware your in trouble can't be a bad thing.

Kiai certianly links with intent to some degree, it has it's place in our trianing- just not a fixed place!
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#330288 - 03/23/07 08:08 AM Re: A Kiai Too Far! What Does Kiai Mean to You? [Re: JKogas]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Kiiiiiiiiiaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiii lol
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#330289 - 03/23/07 08:14 AM Re: A Kiai Too Far! What Does Kiai Mean to You? [Re: linhuck]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
i enjoy using kiai, and there are lots of reasons to use them, and many more not to. but i think its an important aspect of my budo, so i'll keep preaching it.

yours in life
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

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#330290 - 03/23/07 12:06 PM Re: A Kiai Too Far! What Does Kiai Mean to You? [Re: Ed_Morris]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Ed is entirely correct (not that he needs my confirmation).

I've found that beginners need audible feedback both from themselves & their opponents/partners because most aren't naturally aggressive. So in teaching, I encourage audible kiai, however personally (not necessarily when training), kiai is internal.

(But I wonder...would the Yellow Bamboo folk disgree?)

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#330291 - 03/23/07 12:35 PM Re: A Kiai Too Far! What Does Kiai Mean to You? [Re: hedkikr]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I agree with the general basic purpose of Kai training.
But I beleive Kia is the basic principle behind Kai/Chi training its all in the breath to build internal engery. As Ed mentioned it can be done silently.

But vocally a Kia can startle or mis-inform an opponent pending his skill level and if he's use to training with or without it.

If he use to Kia training with a strike, You Kia without the strike and either perfrom the strike before or after the Kia.

If he use to training without Kia, sometimes you can make them blink or raise or lower their guards with a Vocal shout out.

Now I'm not in favor of what I've seen in Kia masters, from the once well reguarded Prof. Geroge Dillman to many non-Asian and Asian flakes. Note the Kia Master beaten down when he faced a non student antangonist, I was embarassed for him.


Edited by Neko456 (03/23/07 12:36 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

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