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#330030 - 03/21/07 12:50 PM "too crazy" to beat
vgnpwr801 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 54
Hi.

So I was out eating with some friends(Lets call the girl Jen, and the guy Jim), when I got wind that an old x-bf of my best friend Jen (were not dating, she and I are just friends) was talking to her saying he doesnt like me and wants to start "drama".

I dont know what I did to acquire this guys anger, I guess just being friends with someone who he still likes is enough. He doesnt want to fight me, and I told her good, because I dont want to fight anyone, ever.

The other person with us, Jim, started talking about how "ill fight him, blah blah blah," just acting tough, when Jen(the girl) said: "He's toO crazy, even if he gets hurt, he will keep punching and punching until your dead. You cant win." The other guy tried to hold his machoism but just left it alone.

That night I started thinking about how to beat someone who is "too crazy" to feel pain.

1: Never ever fight someone. Self Defense is not getting into fights in my book. I never start drama, nor do I want any.

2. Walk away / run away. If he did happen to run into me (for Salt Lake City being so big, its a very small town) just leave it alone, and walk.

3. If those two are not possibilities. How do you handle a situation where you may be backed into a corner, with some who is "too crazy" to feel pain.

I figured that if I already know he is "crazy" like this, go for the eyes, the balls, or the throat. But I would rather do this legally so I dont get into trouble also.

I just want to train for every possible scenario, which I hope never ever happens. But yeah...

Any suggestions?


Edited by vgnpwr801 (03/21/07 01:14 PM)

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#330031 - 03/21/07 01:10 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: vgnpwr801]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

1: Never ever fight someone. Self Defense is not getting into fights in my book. I never start drama, nor do I want any.

2. Walk away / run away. If he did happen to run into me (for Salt Lake City being so big, its a very small town) just leave it alone, and walk.




Finally, someone with common sense! You've made my day.

This has to be one of the first times a thread has been started with this statement right off the bat. Brilliant!

You've got the idea, keep out of trouble. Prevention is better than cure.

That said, crazy people's bones break, joints dislocate and they can get knocked out just like the rest of us. Just because they may or may not feel pain doesn't mean they're unstoppable. A well trained martial artist with experience in full contact sparring (preferably NHB) will definitely be able to deal with such a situation much better than someone who is untrained.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (03/21/07 01:13 PM)
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#330032 - 03/21/07 01:14 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: vgnpwr801]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

He's toO crazy, even if he gets hurt, he will keep punching and punching until your dead. You cant win.




Garbage. Anybody can be KO'd or submitted. Stay away if you can, but don't buy into all the hyperbole.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#330033 - 03/21/07 01:27 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: MattJ]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

Garbage. Anybody can be KO'd or submitted. Stay away if you can, but don't buy into all the hyperbole.




Yep, it's just simple biology. Cut off the blood flow to the brain (or instigate the carotid sinus reflex) and any person will be unconscious in seconds. No one is exempt from biology.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (03/21/07 01:29 PM)
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#330034 - 03/21/07 01:28 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: MattJ]
vgnpwr801 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 54
I didnt believe her.

Thats why I went through how to in my head later that night.

Just wanted to see if my suggestions were right

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#330035 - 03/21/07 03:21 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: vgnpwr801]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Crazy or not, structural damge will stop anyone. How could you walk with a broke leg or punch with a broken arm? Think with a head busted by a frying pan?

Truth is theres nothing that cant be done to a nutcase that cant be done with anyone else with the exception of reasoning with them.

Your first two suggestions are always the best way to go if ya can.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#330036 - 03/21/07 03:27 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: vgnpwr801]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Yep, no one is crazy enough to not be knocked out or choked out, armbared, taken-down, ground and pounded, etc.

It's called, "having more skill".



-John

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#330037 - 03/21/07 07:28 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: vgnpwr801]
martialarthur Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 9
Maybe the guy was a baresark in a previous life

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#330038 - 03/21/07 10:10 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: vgnpwr801]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Vgnpwr801:

You did exactly what you are supposed to do.... what anyone with half a brain will do. Avoid the avoidable, period.

Tough and crazy are different creatures... if I screw up on every level and am forced to the physical route, crazy hit correctly should be stoppable. Tough not likely as simple...
combined eeeeeeesh.

<<I just want to train for every possible scenario

You passed this test... don't fret what might never be. Suggestion, yes... find your instructors and thank them, they will take pride in how this occured! Good job,

Bravo...

Jeff

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#330039 - 03/22/07 08:49 AM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: Ronin1966]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
'regular' crazy ie. very aggressive and full of 'red mist' I would agree, it only takes meeting someone who can out fight them and its game over.

'drug' crazy can be a different kettle of fish though, and there is no doubt that people under the influence od strong narcotic stimulants can display greater than normal tolerance to damage, and also continue to function to a higher level with severe injury.
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#330040 - 03/22/07 11:29 AM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: Cord]
vgnpwr801 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 54
Well I know he doesnt do drugs. Straight edge supposedly.

Crazy drug people are a different situation. I would just try to escape and run away the whole time if possible.

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#330041 - 03/23/07 10:49 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: vgnpwr801]
Pierce Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 13
First, do not make yourself a target of his anger. A target does not have to display itself as a target, it just needs to look like one.

If you do get in a fight with him for some uncontrollable reason try break the bones in his hand (knuckles are best). A good way to do this is to block an incoming fist with your elbow by thrusting your elbow in front of your face and using your hand to help guide their fist into it Bone pain in the worst type of pain and no one can repeatedly punch with a hand broken that way (and lawsuits [if any] will be minimal)

That being said, this will not work at all on people high on cocaine (except maybe softening their fists a little). Get away. Really. But if you can not, go for K.O.s, if that is "impossible", then joint and ligament tears will stop anybody. If both of these are not options (as they may be difficult) and you still cannot get away then kill him, it is not worth your life.

Also, if you have great endurance and can avoid blows amazingly well, then you could actually just wait until he gets to tired to fight back, maybe help him out with a few trips. (Note: this is difficult, and unrealistic)
But possible

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#330042 - 04/09/07 07:50 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: Pierce]
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Quote:

If you do get in a fight with him for some uncontrollable reason try break the bones in his hand (knuckles are best). A good way to do this is to block an incoming fist with your elbow by thrusting your elbow in front of your face and using your hand to help guide their fist into it Bone pain in the worst type of pain and no one can repeatedly punch with a hand broken that way...




Sorry, dude, but I have to disagree. A whole bunch of years back a friend of mine, a pretty good black belt in a Kyokushin derived style, was attacked by his G.F.'s brother. He later admitted to me that he lost it with the guy and continued to hit him long after he'd won the fight. It was only after he stopped, calmed down and tried to unclench his fist that he noticed he'd broken bones in his hand from beating upside the brother's noggin'. Ain't adrenaline dump a grand thing?
_________________________
Just when you think something is foolproof, they come out with a new and improved type of fool.

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#330043 - 04/09/07 08:00 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: Leo_E_49]
shadowkahn Offline
anti-stupid crusader

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 234
Quote:

Quote:

Garbage. Anybody can be KO'd or submitted. Stay away if you can, but don't buy into all the hyperbole.




Yep, it's just simple biology. Cut off the blood flow to the brain (or instigate the carotid sinus reflex) and any person will be unconscious in seconds. No one is exempt from biology.




that's how cops deal with people hopped up on PCP, which blocks the sensation of pain. Well, either that or they shoot them

I'd like to add my kudos to the OP for being smart enough to avoid fights, and for already knowing that rules 1 and 2 of a fight involve avoidance and running away. We need more people like you in the martial arts community.
_________________________
"Belt mean no need rope hold up pants" - Mr. Miyagi, RIP.

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#330044 - 04/11/07 10:09 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: shadowkahn]
CombatMan Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 3
Forget it! It probably wouldnt
even happen! Lots of guys have said they
were going to "Bash" me and it never ever
happened.

Your wasting your time even worrying about
it! Focus on the positives in your life not
the negatives.

And if he does happen to get in your
face and threaten you. "Hit him first
and keep going till he's had enough"


Nuff Said!
_________________________
www.combatinnercircle.com Go there now to claim your free membership.

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#330045 - 04/20/07 04:18 AM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: MAGon]
JimmySmith Offline
Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 73
Loc: Australia
Lame on... Knuckles are the best to break??. If someone has good body mechanics and conditioned knuckles, how prey tell do you reliably break them? Control should be the key to any fight. If you can't control the fight from escalating to violence whether it be drugs or some other reason you should try to control the aggressor. Try hitting the person. If that doesn't work try again. If you get to the point where you think, "Actually that girl is right he is nuts" de-escalate the problem. Don't rely on submissions because they will not work on someone no drugs (sleeper hold will). Break their ankle (kick down 45degree from side approx 6inches up) or easier, break their knee (a straight knee will break with very little horizontal pressure- so use your own knee to straighten theirs and open palm the hell out of it)

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#330046 - 04/20/07 12:44 PM Re: "too crazy" to beat [Re: JimmySmith]
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Quote:

Lame on... Knuckles are the best to break??. If someone has good body mechanics and conditioned knuckles, how prey tell do you reliably break them?





Errr... By hitting something hard at the wrong angle??? Nowhere in my post will you find the word "reliably". That word has no place in anything referring to fighting, where the only reliable thing is how unreliable absolutes are. However, in boxing, where you have trained, conditioned athletes wearing gloves to prevent the very thing, you see knuckles and other assorted bones of the hand broken, and not infrequently.



Quote:

Control should be the key to any fight. If you can't control the fight from escalating to violence whether it be drugs or some other reason you should try to control the aggressor.





Yeeeees... True, that's the way to go. The problem, though, is that getting there is oftentimes very messy.



Quote:

Try hitting the person. If that doesn't work try again. If you get to the point where you think, "Actually that girl is right he is nuts" de-escalate the problem.






'Scuse me, but there's an inconsistency here. If the person isn't rational, how can you reason with him once you've hit him? The problem with violence is that once the genie is out of the bottle, it's hard as hell, if not impossible to get 'im back in.
And what is the other person doing while all this hit, hit again, oops! let's reason thing is going on. I bet he/she has plans of his/her own. And they won't be friendly!



Quote:

Don't rely on submissions because they will not work on someone no drugs (sleeper hold will). Break their ankle (kick down 45degree from side approx 6inches up) or easier, break their knee (a straight knee will break with very little horizontal pressure- so use your own knee to straighten theirs and open palm the hell out of it)






I'm not a wrestler/grappler, so I don't have much to say on that account.
As to attacking the ankle or knee, yes it makes sense to attack the opponents foundation. If off balance or on the ground, it limits his ability to cause harm and enhances one's own to get away. That said, it's a mistake to go into a fight thinking that you'll just do this or that technique and the opponent will crumble. The human bod is, paradoxically, both very fragile and very tough. Sometimes a glass jaw will end a fight, sometimes a person that's been stabbed continues to fight and only notices what happened to him after it's all over.
_________________________
Just when you think something is foolproof, they come out with a new and improved type of fool.

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