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#329784 - 03/20/07 12:47 PM All around Kata- Japan, Okinawa, UFC
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884

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#329785 - 03/20/07 03:33 PM Re: All around Kata- Japan, Okinawa, UFC [Re: oldman]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Nice ideas ..in theory.

And thats become the problem for me as I give up more on kata/pattern work and go to NHB type training.It was all theory.Too much theory.No actualy seeing it with my own eyes.No footage...no demonstration against someone resisting.Realy resisting

Also why train to deal with an untrained opponent when you can get more, training as though you will face the best in the world complete loon hard nut ,and that will definitly mean you handle an untrained guy.Plus you dont know if the guy is untrained untill its too late,he might be in the gym now and then or done the odd Muay thai class..you just dont know.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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#329786 - 03/27/07 10:11 AM Re: All around Kata- Japan, Okinawa, UFC [Re: matxtx]
Toudiyama Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 229
Loc: Zaandam, Netherlands
Quote:

Also why train to deal with an untrained opponent when you can get more, training as though you will face the best in the world complete loon hard nut ,and that will definitly mean you handle an untrained guy.




Do it does not mean that, whereas trained people tend to move a certain way, the untrained opponent doesn't move in such a way in fact his behavior will be unpredictable

training for competition with a resistive opponent makes you good at competing not at selfdefence even if that competition is NHB
You might be instructed to pull the guard but it only take 1 more opponent for that not to work

Now this applies to all that predominantly train for competition, if the rules do not allow attacking the back with punches, kicks or elbows, then you are likely not to go for that in a real life situation
If your style doesn't allow puches to the face in competition then again you will most likely not use those on the street

Training against a resistive opponent isn't the all out magic training tool that makes everything effective for the street

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#329787 - 04/10/07 02:19 AM Re: All around Kata- Japan, Okinawa, UFC [Re: matxtx]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
There is a difference between "Trained" & "Untrained" fighters.

An untrained fighter moves in unconventional ways - not better, often worse (no to little timing, balance & coordination). This uncoordinated "non-rhythmic" clumsy "style" is difficult to contend w/ especially since most MA-ists face others who fight like themselves.

Untrained fighters don't know how to retreat effectively so you better know In-fighting when you find yourself literally face-to-chest w/ the guy.

I'm not sure where the guy was going w/ it but MA-ists should know the difference between "Trained" & "Untrained" adversaries.

BTW: Trivia...I think the guy was a Shukokai guy through certain clues.

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#329788 - 04/10/07 08:01 AM Re: All around Kata- Japan, Okinawa, UFC [Re: hedkikr]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Quote:

Trivia...I think the guy was a Shukokai guy through certain clues.



his kamae and hip action?

about the vid:
the presentation he gave is more detailed than most and I got the distinct impression of many ideas being distilled conversations I've read on various forums.

there are some problems with terminology. the first that came to mind is 'koryu okinawan arts'. the word 'koryu' is a Japanese one introduced into OMA when the Okinawan arts were first being accepted as Budo. prior to that, I think Okinawan karateka tended not to categorize.

another point made which seemed out of place to my experience was the point made about Japanese Karate having smaller movements than OMA. It's true, in general, the two methods/optimizations have different power generation methods based on the range. But I think the goal of both arts is to start with the general shape (even an exagguration for learning) and as the skill/proficiency increases - so does the efficiency of movement. from larger to smaller. so it's a bit of a misnomer to categorizes by this alone without taking a closer look at the generation method differneces themselves.

also, it seems he ommitted the economy of core rotation, which is a large factor in closer encounters and not so much for distance sparring.

one more generalization that doesn't fit is the fact Japanese koryu Arts such as jujitsu, Aikido, etc don't have the characteristics he's describing. some of those notions have influenced schools of Japanese karate and are blended with decent effect. so 'Japanese karate' is not synonymous with 'sport karate' or 'sparring range karate'.
same with Okinawan Karate having some schools being more influenced by Japanese koryu vs more influence from Chinese Arts.

as a result, the 'decision tree' excludes too many factors by oversimplification.

but I think his presentation is a closer approximation of distinquishing Arts (if you are into doing that for whatever reason). but an easier decision tree would be to simply ask a dojo: what kind of two-person training do you include?

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#329789 - 04/10/07 08:59 AM Re: All around Kata- Japan, Okinawa, UFC [Re: Ed_Morris]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
from memory he is a very decent shotokan practitioner, who now trains Shito Ryu in Japan, if that helps out in any way!
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#329790 - 04/10/07 01:57 PM Re: All around Kata- Japan, Okinawa, UFC [Re: oldman]
oldcoach Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 130
I forget his name and the site, but I've bought some of his downloadable Shito-ryu kata videos. In those videos, he seemed to be quite a download-to-earth teacher.

PS. Is it just me or does that background look a bit like the virtual dojo in The Matrix?

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#329791 - 04/11/07 01:57 AM Re: All around Kata- Japan, Okinawa, UFC [Re: oldcoach]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Good eye. (not "good-day" in Aussie)

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