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#328994 - 03/16/07 01:37 AM Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
After discussing the jab, it seemed many were confused about just what is a jab and what is a lead straight and whats the difference? So, after much hesitation, here it is.

From a spectator point of view it is very easy to confuse these punches as the mechanics are very similar.

The biggest difference between these two punches is the power. A jab, snaps at impact. A Leading straight snaps after it has gone THROUGH or PAST its target.

The generation of power is different than that of the jab as well, though one might not see it simply by looking. When you jab, its a whipping motion, mostly from the shoulder, with little help from the waist and torso. The Lead Straight is also whippy, and you should be relaxed when performing. However, the strike will begin at the feet. If you are using a lead right, then movement will start at your left foot, by springing out. The energy will continue through your left leg as it extends, through the waist as it turns, across the back, through the right shoulder, the right wrist as it snap, and expells through the target. The fist should return on the same plane, without dropping and at the same speed that it was fired out. Like all good punches, it does not move backwards before moving forwards, and it remains relaxed until impact.

While you can use it relatively the same as the jab, there are some key differences that should be noted.

These differences mainly spawn due to the increase in power. Since you are using more power there is more of a gap for you to be attacked. (Gap meaning time it takes from launch to impact, and from impact to arrival in your defensive structure.)

Since the gap is larger, this isnt often an opening technique, unless initializing a combo. It isnt used so much for range or for feeling out the opponent since it expels more energy than the jab. Instead the jab will often set up the straight, after opening up the opponent, or putting him on the defensive.

The straight plays a larger role in counter hitting and stop hitting than the jab. An angry attacker may sacrifice taking a jab to get the rush or clinch. When stop hitting with the straight you get much more power delivery and weight behind you, giving you a better chance of success for stopping.

As a counter it still gives adequate power. Since it is a straight line, and has the advantage of starting halfway to the opponent, it will reach the opponent quickly. Any opportunity that you can counter with a reverse punch, or cross, you can do it with a lead straight quicker, and with adequate power.

After a parry the lead straight is also very workable if you have good footwork. Parry, advance and straight. This can also be done while retreating.

The last, but one of the most important details involving the lead straight is head and hand placement.

Your head should tilt when using the lead straight and your rear hand should be just below the elbow of your lead arm. For example, if you use a lead straight right, your head should tilt slightly down and to the left. Be mindful to keep your eyes on your opponent of course. The reason for this is because of that slightly longer gap that we talked about earlier. Keeping your head down and tilted to the side will keep him from coming over your arm and hitting your jaw or back of your head. Your hand placement on the rear hand will keep him from landing an uppercut or hook on you. If he comes at you with a straight shot, chances are you can slip it or it will graze you, since your head is tilted.

When using the straight to the body, be sure to keep your line of sight. Keep your shoulder level with your fist and your target. Drop levels quickly, coming in and going out.

And lastly a simple formula to help you decide whether you want to go high or low with the lead straight. High if they are farther and low if they're closer. Not absolute but a guide anyways.

So there you have it. Hope I covered it all. Probably havent. Its late, and I dont know that much so what do you expect?! Enjoy guys and lets hear what you think!
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#328995 - 03/16/07 02:16 AM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Chen Zen]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Rubbish! Complete, utter, unadultered rubbish!

Just kidding Good work explaining that one, and thanks once again bro.

The lead straight is good for counter-fighters who are right-handed but fight in south-paw. Some of my former Kohais complained when fighting in southpaw they missed their right handed cross-counter. Basically, if you do this right, you CAN counter a cross with this much like a cross, but do be aware that the only type of punch you'll be able to counter like that is a cross. If you tried it against a lead jab, it's a bit awkward as you're infront of him and your leading hand is behind him with his arm blocking the way. An uppercut to your stomache is guaranteed.

Notice the flexibility of this punch when compared to the cross. The cross only has the option of travelling forward in a straight line. The lead straight however, can only travel in a straight line but in any direction.

So you could slip a lead swing, jab or a lead straight and land this baby right on their face.

I'm going to try and be a bit scientific, but my measurements are probably a bit off. The lead straight has a 90 degree cone in which it can travel. The cross only has a 45 degree cone in which it can travel. So the lead straight can be thrown from weird angles after slipping or swaying.

Another thing is the lead straight sometimes goes through good defense. The reason is it's faster than a cross, and is usually unexpected.

Remember that the lead straight is a good weapon for counterfighters. It has the some power of the cross and retains some of the flexibility and speed of the jab. Not a weapon to be ignored.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#328996 - 03/16/07 03:25 AM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8JmH4y5X_k

Ok at 03:56, you can clearly see that Mirko was knocked out by a straight lead. This lead however was a bit bent and looked like a hook because when Randleman hit, he didn't snap it back but let it go through the target.

I have to put on it however, as there are some vulgar language being used.

I also have to say that the commentators are just F!@!#%^ noobs, that's not a left hook, that's a lead straight. Go home and learn your basics.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#328997 - 03/16/07 05:38 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Taison]
Jer_sm Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Canada, new-bruncswick
im having a hard time picturing what the lead straight looks like.

could you explain step by step how to throw the punch starting from the feet in orthodox?
_________________________
Heart, Courage, Intensity. The desire to win.

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#328998 - 03/16/07 07:40 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Chen Zen]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
I've got a question. Do you think the lead straight can generate enough force to end a fight? In my experience, it's a powerful punch as far as knocking the head back, but it just doesn't travel far enough to have enough momentum to cause something like a KO. It is probably just my lack of skill with the punch, I usually use it at the end of a combination, in order to move back out into sparring range.

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#328999 - 03/16/07 08:40 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Supremor]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
IT definately can Supremor! First of all, if your knocking the head back, then you have enough power to drop them. Try putting more weight delivery into it with your footwork. By either springing forward or dropping down in a step and delivering the shot. Also try aiming for the chin. The chin is a great "Drop Spot". Also if you are doing this on the retreat, make sure your feet do not begin to go backwards until impact or just before. So that when you withrdaw your punch, your feet are withdrawing as well.

For the mechanics from orthodox stance. Your right foot will push off from the ball, your leg(which should be slightly bent) will begin to extend, as if to straighten out. This will propel your body forward. Towards the apex of the push your waist will begin to turn so that your left shoulder(the lead hand) begins to go forward and slightly up while the right will go left and begin to go slightly dow as you start to tilt your head down and to the right. As the left shoulder moves forward the left hand(relaxed) will begin its straight line to the target. VERY IMPORTANT! DON NOT throw the strike straight fro the shoulder, but from your center, and if you can, attack his centerline. Even if you cant hit his centerline always attack from the center when using the lead straight. This is very important and advantageous to the Striker.

First, from the center is more power. The second reason is protection. If you throw the straight, straight out from the shoulder he can throw his own straight or jab and hit you. Also, your head wont be able to tilt as much, making it easier to hit the face, or to come over your strike and hit the back of your head, which can be very dangerous. Also be sure that your rear hand is located just below the lead elbow to take care of any hooking or uppercutting to the body.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#329000 - 03/16/07 09:07 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Chen Zen]
Jer_sm Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Canada, new-bruncswick
verry cool, cant wait to try to utilise it.
_________________________
Heart, Courage, Intensity. The desire to win.

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#329001 - 03/17/07 12:45 AM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Supremor]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
It can.

When you see your opponent go in for an attack, you intercept him with this baby, and he'll be counting stars. The lead straight was Bruce Lee's favorite 'stop-hit'. The people he did KO, was from this.

Larry Holmes knocked a lot of people out with this technique, as well Cassius Clay.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#329002 - 03/17/07 07:30 AM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Taison]
Eveal Offline
the freshmaker

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 303
Lead straights are very nice. Nick Diaz KOed Robbie Lawler with a counter lead if I am not mistaken.

Brandon
_________________________
Be "Water" my friend!

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#329003 - 03/17/07 03:23 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Eveal]
Jer_sm Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Canada, new-bruncswick
so its kinda like bruce lee's 1 inch "punch"?
_________________________
Heart, Courage, Intensity. The desire to win.

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#329004 - 03/17/07 03:48 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Jer_sm]
Eveal Offline
the freshmaker

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 303
Quote:

so its kinda like bruce lee's 1 inch "punch"?




Not exactlly. The lead straight is gernerally the same as the jab but the intentions are different. Like they said before your trying to KO your opponent with it so its much slower but alot more powerful. It has body weight, shoulder and back all behind it. Just think how deadly you can be if you have KO power with your lead and cross.

Brandon
_________________________
Be "Water" my friend!

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#329005 - 03/17/07 05:42 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Eveal]
Jer_sm Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Canada, new-bruncswick
well the 1 inch punch does use all those muscles. bruce lee's favorite ko punch was the lead straight.he was really just demonstrating the power of the "punch". ( even if its more of a push)

but if you put distance into the 1inch punch its really close mechanics i think.
_________________________
Heart, Courage, Intensity. The desire to win.

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#329006 - 03/17/07 05:50 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Jer_sm]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
The mechanics are similar, but the intent isnt the same.

First and foremost, the one inch punch is a gimmick punch. If an opponent was so close to you and you were attempting to do damage you would not punch, you would grab or takedown. Or you would attempt to gain distance by retreating and attacking at the same time. To do this, your attack will travel much further than one or three inches.

The lead straight is a highly damaging attack, especially if used in a straight blast or boxing blast.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#329007 - 03/20/07 03:57 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Chen Zen]
Jer_sm Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Canada, new-bruncswick
could you explain straight blast and boxing blast?
i have an idea but not sure if im right.
_________________________
Heart, Courage, Intensity. The desire to win.

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#329008 - 03/20/07 05:43 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Jer_sm]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Sure. Both of these things were made popular by Jeet Kune Do. First we used the straight blast. Basically, this is rushing the opponent with alternating straights after having created or found an opening in the defenses of the opponent. At the time it seemed like a pretty good idea. The fastest way between to points after all is a straightline. However, a straight line can be predictable, and speed isnt always as important as landing a good solid shot. So the Straight Blast was Changed to the Boxing blast, replacing straight punches with hooks,straights, and crosses. By alternating the shots, and the angles, you have a better percentage chance of hitting the opponent and doing damage.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#329009 - 03/22/07 03:55 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Chen Zen]
Jer_sm Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Canada, new-bruncswick
ohhh cool cool.

yeah i already do that. didn't know there was a name for it.

thx.
_________________________
Heart, Courage, Intensity. The desire to win.

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#329010 - 03/23/07 06:01 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Chen Zen]
Kodanshi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 11
Loc: Airboat Noclip
Wow, I’d only ever heard of the ‘blasts’ in the fighting game Bloody Roar! A ‘boxer’ called Yugo uses those attack strings, but I didn’t realise they’d taken them from real boxing
_________________________

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#329011 - 03/23/07 07:45 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Kodanshi]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I love that game. Yugo was the wolf right?

But yes, these attack strings have a name, and they work quiet well.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#329012 - 03/23/07 09:16 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Chen Zen]
Eveal Offline
the freshmaker

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 303
I didn't know that the boxing blast included the hook but man now that I think about it I can add some devestating combinations to my arsenal. I like to set my 1 - 2, 1 - 2 blast after I slip a jab or cross. Very effective if done correctly.

Brandon
_________________________
Be "Water" my friend!

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#329013 - 03/23/07 09:37 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Eveal]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Absolutely. And dont forget that an uppercut is nothing more than a hook at a diffeent angle!
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#329014 - 03/24/07 12:54 AM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Chen Zen]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Look at the shovel hook. It's basically a tight uppercut, but resembles a hook more because of it's alignment. .

So is the shovel hook a hook, or a uppercut?

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#329015 - 03/24/07 02:20 AM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Taison]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I would say its a modified uppercut, due to the upward thrust. So a modified uppercut would be a hybrid hook?
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#329016 - 03/24/07 12:33 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Chen Zen]
Jer_sm Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Canada, new-bruncswick
its 50% hook 50% uppercut.

if you ask me though, ide call it more of a hook. same for the uppercut, its all just different angled hooks using slightly different mechanicss with the same hooking action in mind.

just like the cross, jab, over hand, they are basicly straight attacks.
_________________________
Heart, Courage, Intensity. The desire to win.

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#329017 - 03/24/07 05:05 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Jer_sm]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
True, its simply the application and intent behind them that make them different
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#329018 - 03/25/07 10:49 AM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Jer_sm]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Oh my god Jer_sm. . .

You actually consider jab, cross and overhand the same attack?!?!?!

Their only similarities is that they travel a straight line. That's it.

But then again, you're quite new to MA, and tend to group things together to make it all easier.

The shovel hook, is NOT 50% hook, 50% uppercut.

The shovel hook is a hook. The reason why? Simple.

It doesn't start from the waist like an uppercut. The angle which it travels is 45 degree towards the target, not 90 degree up like an uppercut. The other thing is that the forearm is 90 degree parallel to the bicep. Basically, the arm is like an inverted L shape when you punch.

So the shovel hook's mechanics is basically a hook, not an upper. It looks like an upper to the un-trained eye.

Quote:

its all just different angled hooks using slightly different mechanicss with the same hooking action in mind.


NO! ! Uppercut totally different mechanics. It's like saying straight leads and jabs are the same!!!

Ok, sorry for being grumpy, but I've been absent from the board for a day, so my mouth can't shut today.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#329019 - 03/25/07 11:22 AM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Taison]
Jer_sm Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Canada, new-bruncswick
i know they are different mechanics but like im just saying they involve the same like hooking action with the arm. and like jab cross involes extending the arm so its straight. im not really comparing body mechanics.

i dont know. im not really going technical xP
_________________________
Heart, Courage, Intensity. The desire to win.

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#329020 - 03/25/07 11:48 AM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Jer_sm]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
NO!!!

Quote:

know they are different mechanics but like im just saying they involve the same like hooking action with the arm.




DIFFERENT MECHANICS!!

GO TECHNICAL NOT GENERALIZE TECHNIQUES!!

-Taison out!!!!!!
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#329021 - 03/25/07 11:55 AM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Taison]
Jer_sm Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Canada, new-bruncswick
its on!
_________________________
Heart, Courage, Intensity. The desire to win.

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#329022 - 03/25/07 12:13 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Jer_sm]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
*bans Jer_sm*

No one talks back to the great Taison. No one.

Who's next?

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#329023 - 03/25/07 01:02 PM Re: Lead Straight: Lets go technical part 6 [Re: Taison]
Jer_sm Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Canada, new-bruncswick
that was a low blow.
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Heart, Courage, Intensity. The desire to win.

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