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#328956 - 08/21/07 12:50 PM Re: choice [Re: MattJ]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Exactly Matt.

LEOs and (volunteer) service personell are people who have made the choice to give up being able to have a choice for the (perceived) common good.

It's funny how the freedoms their choice give us allow people the freedom to say we have no freedoms.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#328957 - 09/09/07 08:16 PM Re: ATTN MODS : PORN LINKS [Re: hunterkell]
sopwith21 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 49
Quote:

Truly, you have a unique perspective. One that I think you have earned by possible acts that you should not have commited.



As a police officer committed to the law, which holds that people are innocent until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt, why would you say such a thing?

Quote:

Someone such as yourself, may have a choice as to what they do or not do....

Someone such as myself, does not



You always have a choice. You make that choice every day. You cannot avoid responsibility for your actions. They are yours and yours alone, committed by your own will.
Quote:

Or why else would I put my life on the line to prtoect someone such as yourself (not a personal dig-regarding your personal/political beliefs)....every single day of my life?



What, precisely, did you do to protect me, and what date did this protection take place on? Please make me aware of the incident in question.
Quote:

Someone who insults my sacrifices, my sense of honor, my sense of duty. Someone that insinuates that I am a criminal and/or suggests that I commit criminal acts.



I have not insulted you in any way. I have spoken on the topic only, not against you. If you considered anything I said as a sort of insult, I sincerely apologize.
Quote:

Someone whom I suggest has not made (or tried to make society) a better place.



Seems that you throw a mighty fine insult yourself.

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#328958 - 09/09/07 08:26 PM Re: choice [Re: trevek]
sopwith21 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 49
Quote:

I wonder how many people with Sopwith's philosophy, when they find themselves being beaten up, scream at the nearest person or LEO, "Please, you have to help me", or do they scream, "Please, make a choice to help me".



Neither. I would either draw my Walther P99 9mm Parabellum, use my Cold Steel Gunsite II lockblade and my Kali/Silat training, or rely on the seven belts I hold in martial arts.

Police clean up blood and make charges after the incident. There are exceptions, of course, but it is extraordinarily rare for a police officer to actually stop a violent act once it has been initiated, not because they are unwilling, but because violent acts generally last but a few seconds while police response time is generally measured in minutes. But that's really beside the point.

What you're really trying to suggest is that anyone who holds my views must be so pathetic that we are incapable or unwilling to act on our own behalf in an emergency. This, of course, is another personal insult tactic that does not address the topic in any meaningful way. It seems to be something of a pattern on this particular forum.

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#328959 - 09/09/07 08:40 PM Re: choice [Re: MattJ]
sopwith21 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 49
Quote:

Laws and repercussions are a way of life everywhere. You have to learn to accept it



Or else... what?
Quote:

change the laws



There are 435 members of the House, another 100 in the Senate. That's 535 legislators. I am able to vote for a grand total of three of them.

This means that if I were able to win every single election in which I am permitted to vote, all in the same year, and was able to persuade each of them to originate or co-sponsor legislation of my liking, that I would still be 265 votes short of changing even a single federal law.

The odds at the state level are only marginally better. The fantasy of the law being responsive to the needs of individual citizens is indeed nothing more than a fantasy.
Quote:

or suffer the consequences.



Ah... now we get to the truth. What, precisely, are the consequences for the 49% who don't necessarily wish to submit to the will of the 51%? Please be specific.

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#328960 - 09/09/07 08:52 PM Re: choice [Re: trevek]
sopwith21 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 49
Quote:

LEOs and (volunteer) service personell are people who have made the choice to give up being able to have a choice for the (perceived) common good.

It's funny how the freedoms their choice give us allow people the freedom to say we have no freedoms.



Noble words with limited truth.

Go to an airport without your badge. Stay out of the way, do not block or inhibit anyone in their duties and remain peaceful.

Then try making a public declaration that the practices at the airport are unconstitutional, illegal and destroy our nation's freedom, and that bearing arms is a lawful right that cannot be taken away, and that general searches without warrant are a criminal offense under federal law and that the practices in the airport should be stopped by any means necessary immediately.

Keep at it, speaking peacefully yet openly to all bypassers throughout the airport.

Hey... let's up the ante here... do this and send me a video of you in the airport for at least 60 minutes. If you are not forced to stop during this 60 minutes, I will apologize, agree with your above statement entirely, and pay you $100 for your time.

Let's see how much freedom your LEO's and volunteer personnel really believe in.

Deal?

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#328961 - 09/09/07 09:50 PM Re: choice [Re: sopwith21]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Or else... what?




Or else.....chaos? How do you think SOCIETY has come about? I'm honestly curious. Can you name one that does not have rules and consequences? Isn't it a given that the more complex the society, the more rules (thus consequences) it incurs?

Quote:

There are 435 members of the House, another 100 in the Senate. That's 535 legislators. I am able to vote for a grand total of three of them.

This means that if I were able to win every single election in which I am permitted to vote, all in the same year, and was able to persuade each of them to originate or co-sponsor legislation of my liking, that I would still be 265 votes short of changing even a single federal law.

The odds at the state level are only marginally better. The fantasy of the law being responsive to the needs of individual citizens is indeed nothing more than a fantasy.




Sounds pretty lazy to me. Have you heard of petitions, or other citizen based political machinery? If you get enough like-minded folk to agree with you, you CAN change the law.

But don't cry if you don't try.

Quote:

Ah... now we get to the truth. What, precisely, are the consequences for the 49% who don't necessarily wish to submit to the will of the 51%? Please be specific.





For every law? Oh jeez.....look it up yourself.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#328962 - 09/09/07 11:15 PM Re: choice [Re: MattJ]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
sopwith, you want me to spend the time to look up the entirety of the legal code as it applies to ME, let alone everyone. That's the entirety of the California legal code, Florida legal code, Colorado legal code, US legal code, the entire codex of Army Regulations, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. That applies to me. I'm not wasting my weekends, my short weeknights, and my deployment for the next several years. And it's not 51% of the public behind all these laws. It's democratically elected representatives of our republican government who is behind these laws. If you don't like the way things are, grassroots efforts are the solution to the problem, not whining on a web forum. Join an organization that represents and lobbies what you believe in, and help them make a difference.

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#328963 - 09/10/07 09:35 AM Re: choice [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
hunterkell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 435
Loc: fl usa
Sopwith,

I see you are full of fire and brimstone and some ideas.

If I might ask:

What have you done to make society a better place?
and I'm not speaking of using your verbal abilities to impart your opinions/ideas to the unwashed masses.

What actual services have you provided to society that have impacted in a meaningful way (that have served others, not yourself)?

What sacrifices have you made? to help others.

I have listed mine, would you please list yours?

Kel

P.s. (and I understand if you don't won't answer this question, but, if you do, please be truthful), have you ever been arrested and what for?
_________________________
Remembering 3655K

Nothing is impossible for the person that doesn't have to do it.

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#328964 - 09/10/07 10:34 AM Re: choice [Re: hunterkell]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Kell, not an excuse, I've been arrested, and I still like cops.

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#328965 - 09/10/07 01:50 PM Re: choice [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
hunterkell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 435
Loc: fl usa
Bush,

I have no excuses either. When I was a young man I was also arrested.
I was an irresponsible young man and acted like an irresponsible young man. I could have went either way and I was lucky that my parent's training asserted itself.
When I was that age (under 20), however, I looked at things in a very different light. I was a different person.
I just wonder what Sop's past life and experiences were/are and what his age is...might could explain a lot.
The one thing I don't do is JUDGE anyone. We all have our past that we either learn from or don't learn from; I like to think most people learn from their pasts.

If I struck a nerve to ANYONE reading my question, I apologize.

Kel

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