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#328936 - 04/05/07 01:28 PM Re: Local News: In Custody Death [Re: MattJ]
hunterkell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 435
Loc: fl usa
My PD has just issued tazers to us. We are one of the last PDs in my county to get them. During training we too were advised that most deaths have happened when the suspect is on some type of narcotics and in poor cardio vascular health.

I currently work resource at a high school (not real big maybe 1800 kids), have not had to taze anyone yet. Had to seek compliance a few times. One thing that is interesting is that tazers are so well known now that when I did seek compliance they instantly did what I asked becuz they already seemed familiar with what a tazer was and what it could/would do....

which is ok with me becuz that way no one gets hurt.

Kel
_________________________
Remembering 3655K

Nothing is impossible for the person that doesn't have to do it.

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#328937 - 04/23/07 08:47 PM Re: Local News: In Custody Death [Re: MattJ]
sopwith21 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 49
Quote:

The number of deaths from Tasers are pretty low in comparison to their total use.



That is of little comfort the families of several hundred dead people.
Quote:

Most of these cases would not have even occurred if the people had not broken the law in the first place. Responsibility ultimately lies with them.



IOW, its your own fault that we killed you.

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#328938 - 04/23/07 08:57 PM Re: Local News: In Custody Death [Re: MattJ]
sopwith21 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 49
Quote:

I wonder how Sopwith feels about this:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...e5#Post15931668



I'm not sure if your question is sarcastic or not, but I'll risk a genuine answer.

You obviously posted that particular case because police were the alleged victims. That will make it difficult for you to understand my POV.

If the two alleged killers had already initiated actual, authentic acts of violence against the life or property of another, then Clark and Shelton were not initiating violence, they were responding to it. Their actions were morally justified and I am sorry that they were killed while trying to do what was right. I am equally sorry whether they were cops or not; their officer status is irrelevant.

If the two alleged killers had not initiated acts of violence against another, then Clark and Shelton were in fact the aggressors and the alleged "killers" were responding to this violence rather than initiating it. In that case, Clark and Shelton were killed as an act of self defense and have no sympathy coming. Again, whether they are officers or not is irrelevant. I oppose the initiation of violence. Initiating violence does not become morally acceptable when one carries a badge.

If your question was sarcastic I apologize for boring you. If it was legitimate, your (presumed) occupation as a government agent will likely prevent you from understanding my point of view, and will certainly make it impossible for you to accept. But I tried.

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#328939 - 04/23/07 09:01 PM Re: Local News: In Custody Death [Re: hunterkell]
sopwith21 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 49
Quote:

I currently work resource at a high school (not real big maybe 1800 kids), have not had to taze anyone



You will never "have to" taze anyone. You have to breath. You have to have water. You have to have a heartbeat. You do not "have to" taze anyone.

You may someday CHOOSE to taze someone, but you will never "have" to. And when you do choose to assault someone with a taser it may be a good choice or it may be a bad choice... but it will be a choice.

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#328940 - 04/24/07 05:58 AM Re: Local News: In Custody Death [Re: sopwith21]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Fair point, Sopwith. However, the other person also has the choice to not put themselves in a position to make another choose to taze them. Works both ways.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#328941 - 04/24/07 08:41 AM Re: Local News: In Custody Death [Re: sopwith21]
hunterkell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 435
Loc: fl usa
I respectfully disagree with a couple of your opinions sopwith21.

There are times when a LEO "has" to use force to do their job, the only "choice" is the manner that this force is applied.

Many people not in law enforcement do not understand, or are not aware, of this, but it is a valid statement.

Reasonably, the least amount of force that can be applied to accomplish the task should be used. THAT is the choice. BUT, the force still has to be applied.

For instance, in the state of Florida, if I become aware of someone that has a warrant (whether via a traffic stop, a standard notification from Warrants Division, or just a routine vehicle license plate check) and let's ay the warrant is for a criminal charge (domestic violence battery, assault, agg/battery, etc) I HAVE to effect an arrest. I have no CHOICE in the matter. The state of Florida mandates that I make the arrest, or I can be criminally charged, lose my job, sued via civil action.

If that person resists arrest, I HAVE to use force, not only to effect an arrest, but to protect myself...or even the citizens (because allowing a person with a dangerous warrant to stay free endangers others).

The choice is the amount of force I use. Again, reasonably, I should use the least amount needed to accomplish said arrest.

Do some police officers abuse the choice of how much force they can use? unfortunately, yes they do.

You also wrote, "when you do choose to assault someone with a tazer...."

I am given certain "rights" as a police officer that are given to me from the state of FLorida...and one of those "rights" is to use FORCE in certain situations.

As long as I follow those guidlines (statutory requirements actually), I am not "assualting" anyone (after all that is a crime); I am simply using "force" to effect an arrest.

K
_________________________
Remembering 3655K

Nothing is impossible for the person that doesn't have to do it.

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#328942 - 04/24/07 10:04 AM Re: Local News: In Custody Death [Re: hunterkell]
hunterkell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 435
Loc: fl usa
Sopwith21,

I'd also like to state that law enforcement agencies and for that matter any gov't agency NEEDS concerned citizens to question such things as are being discussed here.

I think that anytime special rights and responsiblities are given to any group of people they should be held accountable for the manner in which they use those special rights.

However, I think sometimes people are misinformed as to exactly what those agencies' responsiblities are...

So in other words, for the most, I think you are asking excellent questions.

Kel
_________________________
Remembering 3655K

Nothing is impossible for the person that doesn't have to do it.

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#328943 - 04/25/07 06:54 PM Re: Local News: In Custody Death [Re: sopwith21]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
...and you may choose to be on one side of the fence or the other. You can be the Law Enforcer or the Law Breaker, the Protector or the Predator. And should you choose to sanctimoniously walk the middle, choosing to be "the critic", then you have that right as well.

I think we know what Roosevelt said about the critic.

Life is about choices and we see you have made yours. If you ever need help, I'm sure there will be someone there in a uniform to give it to you.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#328944 - 04/26/07 10:03 AM Re: Local News: In Custody Death [Re: Fletch1]
hunterkell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 435
Loc: fl usa
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
_________________________
Remembering 3655K

Nothing is impossible for the person that doesn't have to do it.

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#328945 - 04/26/07 03:11 PM Re: Local News: In Custody Death [Re: hunterkell]
ChangLab Offline
Sleepy-ninja

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 312
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
I have a t-shirt that reads:

Think the Police dont help?
The next time your in trouble, try calling a crackhead.

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