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#328799 - 03/16/07 05:28 AM Re: Koryu Uchinadi clips [Re: Ed_Morris]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
well McCarthy Sensei gets on here from time to time so im sure he will give us some awnsers, the other option is to take a look at his website where loads of info is avalaible.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#328800 - 03/16/07 08:18 AM Re: Koryu Uchinadi clips [Re: shoshinkan]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA

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#328801 - 03/16/07 01:48 PM Re: Koryu Uchinadi clips [Re: shoshinkan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Thanks. Yes it does sound like mostly Japanese mainland Arts influence, but some Okinawan and mainland Asia arts as well....good stuff.

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#328802 - 03/18/07 08:53 AM Re: Koryu Uchinadi clips [Re: Ed_Morris]
Toudiyama Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 229
Loc: Zaandam, Netherlands
To my knowledge McCarthy's art has been mainly influenced by the okinawan arts, not just Karate
It was developed after many years of research, talking to and training with the old masters and retracing the roots of the kata
Koryu Uchinadi is what McCarthy sensei thinks the percursor(s) of karate might have looked like

As to he flying armbar, nothing new there, judoka were practicing those in the '50's, just as they did leglocks

Nowadays people don't train those anymore and therefore think it is probably a modern BJJ thing

SO I don't think any of the techniques are a new invention, instead the systemization and thinks like the HAPV is what is modern

PS

Look at the lineage chart on the site, as far as I can see only Okinawan masters

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#328803 - 03/18/07 09:41 AM Re: Koryu Uchinadi clips [Re: Toudiyama]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I thought the flying armbar was from Kosen Judo. It's like the perfect way to get a Kodokan judo-ka in a submission from standing, but then again, I'm just guessing.

But still, it's an interesting theory. It does seem to work most of the time against hardcore judo-ka who are persistent in trying to clinch.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#328804 - 03/18/07 06:07 PM Understanding Koryu Uchinadi [Re: shoshinkan]
Koryu Uchinadi Offline
Tanmei
Member

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 65
Loc: Brisbane Australia
Hi folks,

I have drawn liberally from Eastern and Western sources to arrive at where I am today. While I do prefer the Japanese/Zen-like landscape thru which to deliver my syllabus, it is not at the cost of sacrificing simplicity/functionality, common mechanics and immutable principles.

I discovered long ago that there was little, if any, systematization of what is presently called karate in Okinawa's old Ryukyu Kingdom. More disappointing even was how plebeian it appears to have been. Plebeian or not, I worked the door of enough Canadian pubs, night clubs and watering holes to know what brutality can produce, and it doesn't need to be systematized to get the job done. That said, what I did discover during my lengthy [China/Japan] field studies, which was certainly more comforting, surrounded evidence that as many as five different fighting arts had been practiced in Okinawa's old Ryukyu Kingdom Period.

For those interested, this is how "I" see it [historically]:

1. Ti'gwa: The plebeian form of percussive impact [referred to as "Te" or "Di"] introduced to Okinawa from the old Kingdom of Siam during its early period of inter-cultural commerce.

2. Kata: [Hsing/Xing in Mandarin Chinese] Southern/Fujian-based solo quanfa [principally crane, monk fist & SPM-based quanfa] routines used as forms of human movement developed and popularized by the Chinese as ways of promoting physical fitness, mental conditioning and holistic well-being.

3. Torite: [Chin Na/Qinna in Mandarin Chinese] Shaolin-based methods of seizing and controlling once vigorously embraced by law enforcement officials, security agencies and correctional officers during Okinawa's old Ryukyu Kingdom Period.

4. Tegumi: Originally a multi-faceted style of fighting dating back to the time of Tametomo, the discipline is believed to have been derived from Chinese Wrestling [Jiao Li; from which comes Shuai Jiao; --- name est. 1928]. Tegumi evolved into a form of grappling and finally became a rule-bound sport called Ryukyu Sumo.

5. Buki'gwa: Sword, spear, bow/arrow, halberd, shield, knife, cudgel, & truncheon, etc. [The latter two becoming the principal tools of domestic law enforcement following Okinawa's 1609 prohibition of weapons.]

Even though my principal interest is, and has always been, KATA [its origins, evolution, theory, and principles of application practice] it was based largely upon the five different fighting arts idea that I went on to established Koryu Uchinadi Kenpo-jutsu [although there are influences from various other sources...see my web site for more].

Even if what I am doing isn't "right," I am absolutely certain that it is far more in line with the spirit and aims of the original Okinawan pioneers then it is with the conceit associated with one's "style" being the ONE & ONLY CORRECT WAY!" If it isn't, too bad --- I am happy with what it and it works for me.

KU Core Application-based Practices
[Performed in systematized two-person sets]

#1. Giving & Receiving Percussive Impact: Uchi/Uke-waza [29 techniques]
#2. Dealing with the clinch/Tegumi: Kotekitai, Kakie, Ude Tanren and Muchimi-di, etc. [36 techniques]
#3. Joint Manipulation, Cavity Seizing & Limb Entanglements: Kansetsu/Tuite-waza [72 techniques]
#4. Chokes/Strangles-Air/Blood Deprivation: Shime-waza [36 techniques]
#5. Balance Displacement: Nage-waza [55 techniques]
#6. Ground-fighting & Submission: Ne-waza [72 techniques]
#7. Escapes & Counters: Gyaku-waza [36 techniques]
#8. Kata: The classical mnemonic mechanism through which fighting principles are culminated, preserved and transmitted [54 routines]

More here for those interested ... http://www.koryu-uchinadi.com/Koryu_Uchinadi_Curriculum.htm

Thanks for your interest and happy to respond to your queries.

Patrick McCarthy
_________________________
Kind regards,

Patrick McCarthy
Hanshi 8th Dan
International Ryukyu Karate Research Society
www.koryu-uchinadi.com
A link to the past is your bridge to the future
Life isn't about finding yourself -- it's about creating yourself. - GBS

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#328805 - 03/18/07 06:43 PM Re: Understanding Koryu Uchinadi [Re: Koryu Uchinadi]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
welcome McCarthy Sensei, good to see you here at FA.com.

Thankyou for taking the time to awnser the questions on your art.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#328806 - 03/18/07 09:28 PM Re: Understanding Koryu Uchinadi [Re: Koryu Uchinadi]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Quote:

Even if what I am doing isn't "right," I am absolutely certain that it is far more in line with the spirit and aims of the original Okinawan pioneers then it is with the conceit associated with one's "style" being the ONE & ONLY CORRECT WAY!" If it isn't, too bad --- I am happy with what it and it works for me.



You are an outrage. a heritic, no doubt. lol

seriously, I think the spirit of 'making it your own' in an honest and deep way is itself a pioneering spirit.

Ganbatte!

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#328807 - 03/18/07 10:46 PM Re: Understanding Koryu Uchinadi [Re: Koryu Uchinadi]
Unsu Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 142
Loc: San Antone, Tejas
Hello McCarthy Sensei,
I don't think any one way is the way. I do feel that some ways are less round-about in their approach. I like your take on keeping the intent intact. That is what you have done and in a way that is more acceptable to the masses. Who wants to train with chi-ishi, earthen jars, tettsu bo and the sort when you have the more streamlined and modern approach to training, both primary and supplementary?

I have been a Shorin Ryu man for some decades now and agree with your take on the "plebeian" MAs of Okinawa. I fancy myself one who was lucky enough to learn the self-preservation system of the royal palace guard, so plebeian may not be the term to use for that branch of toudi jutsu. Still I know what you're getting at. The Okinawan are not ones for strict organization and anal-retentive behavior. Nonetheless enough of the original intent and kata remain to give us a glimpse into what this amalgam called Okinawan Karate once was.

If the kata and their essence are kept intact, each high ranking shinshi has the right to adapt the style to fit the teacher and the student. I liked the clips, especially the first one and I wish you luck in spreading your system to all corners of the globe. Thank you for your time and expertise, sir.

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#328808 - 03/18/07 11:30 PM Re: Understanding Koryu Uchinadi [Re: Koryu Uchinadi]
Curly Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 89
Loc: Grand Junction, CO
I really like your Kempo-Jutsu style. I've been studying Shorin-Ryu for about five years now and currently hold a shodan. I'd like to start cross training a bit and learn some more about your system.

Also- What does having a membership entale? I'm also wondering if there are any other videos that I can learn from. This style really appeals to me. It looks a lot more interesting than the regular kiso/ippon kumite that I've been learning the past few years, even though that it has worked well for me in the past.

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