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#328637 - 04/09/07 10:17 PM Re: Stats on violent crime [Re: ghost123123]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Interesting, but try this on for size... 1.4 million outstanding warrants in the state of Pennsylvania...
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070408/D8OCIJ400.html

What I find funny was that it says "this database makes it more difficult to run from the law"... but apparently 1.4 million times, somebody's been successful at it...

_________________________
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#328638 - 04/09/07 11:33 PM Re: Stats on violent crime [Re: MAGon]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
Quote:

Globe, I see two problems with that:

1. Depending on how it's carried (E.g.: In a ring holder on a duty belt), deploying the baton isn't any quicker than a holstered pistol. And that by itself will not help most folks.

2. If he's close enough for you to strike him with the baton, you're at best almost in range for his knife, at worst already cut or stabbed.

The point I was trying to make was that just depending on deploying a weapon, any weapon, in time when attacked by a person already wielding a knife from 21 ft. or less won't work for most people, including even most of those well trained in it's use. Moving away to create more distance, moving at an angle from the attacker's line of advance, a parry... Something else in addition to just going for a weapon will be necessary to succesfully stop the attack.





what are your feelings about gas? just curious? I think that the speed in which you can deploy a spray is pretty good - but the stopping power is small. you can get a guy to loose focus, but can't get him to stop altogether.

difficult problem.

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#328639 - 04/10/07 01:04 PM Re: Stats on violent crime [Re: globetrotter]
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Quote:

what are your feelings about gas? just curious? I think that the speed in which you can deploy a spray is pretty good - but the stopping power is small. you can get a guy to loose focus, but can't get him to stop altogether.

difficult problem.




Hey, guy!
First a disclaimer: The last time I was sprayed, it was more'n 30 yrs. ago and the agent used was MACE. I understand that pepper spray, which started out as a poor substitute for MACE, has outstripped it in effectiveness and has substituted it. I've never been pepper sprayed. The only time I've been gassed, it was CS in the "gas chamber" during U.S.M.C. boot camp, more'n 25 yrs. ago (Yeah, I'm an ole [Email]f@rt!).[/Email]
That said, I remember having a least a couple- three seconds before the full effect of the MACE hit me. And even then, although teary eyed and coughing, I could've reacted in some fashion, to include (I believe) running up to someone and stabbing 'em. Ditto for the CS, although the tearing eyes started sooner. But I can tell you that we ran out of that chamber with no problem at all!!!
Now, if I remember right, in the tests it came out on average to 3 seconds to cover the 21 ft. So IMO a chemical spray or gas isn't going to stop this type of attack.
As to speed of deployment, again: Where is it being carried. Purse? Pocket? Belt clip? Duty belt holder? Without having done any testing, I would be of the opinion that the belt clip or belt holder would be somewhat quicker in deploying the spray than it's equivalent for a baton (The ring holder) or for a pistol (The holster). But... nowhere near enough to avoid the knife and probably much less incapacitating.

edited to fix quote


Edited by MattJ (04/10/07 02:07 PM)

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#328640 - 04/10/07 02:06 PM Re: Stats on violent crime [Re: MAGon]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
yeah - my basic SD strategy is based on being able to hit an attacker with enough gas to blind him and cause some confusion, while I kick him in the knee, or, land a tactical baton on the knee. but I am aware of the limitations of gas, as well.

I have a little koboton type thing that shoots gas, and keep it in my coat pocket during the winter, and in my shirt pocket when I don't have a coat on. the range is pretty much point blank, so I can't count on it for any type of distance.

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