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#328348 - 05/05/08 11:41 PM Re: Should they re-invent their forms [Re: BulldogTKD]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

Some TKD Patterns are just that, patterns. I know the Songahm patterns were developed to form a Star Pattern when all the patterns were compleat. The "Songahm Star" is a pattern of many movements put to gether as kicking and punching sequances and nothing more. What about the self defense aplications? Wasn't that the origional intent of creating the forms in the first place or was that just a Japanese thing?




If you think they are just patterns, you missed something or were not told something. The sequence of moves do form a pattern and they do fit together, but the segments are mostly meant as either mini SD or mini sparring groups for the most part.

It's OK though because I missed a lot of it and also thought a lot of the moves were just showy fluff until I started teaching them over and over again.

I think the significance and intent get lost just like everything else as each successive student-teacher passes on only what stuck with them.
_________________________
sam dan Songham Taekwondo The learning has just begun...

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#328349 - 05/06/08 02:23 AM Re: Should they re-invent their forms [Re: jeff_andle]
Seiken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 131
Loc: USA
Speaking from a KukkiTKD perspective.

http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/information/information04.jsp?div=04
http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/information/information04_02.jsp?div=04

Based on what the Kukkiwon says about their forms. I see no reason in changing them. They clearly followed the method of which they designed the forms around carefully. Alot of thought and hardwork has gone into them, and if you use the guidelines they set forth they are exactly what they say they are.

After all, they techniques can be used individually, or in combination. And the poomse give us all of that and more. And applications are prevalant regardless of style. The Taegeuk for KukkiTKD have a steady increase in techniques and difficulty, and then the black belt forms even more so.

Even the Kukkiwon stated the forms are Taekwondo. So imo changing what it is now, or getting rid of them altogether would be to get rid of Taekwondo itself.

They even have some basic set applications for the movements on the website. Very basic. Which fits perfect with the writings on technique. And they go on to state, the advanced application begins with cultivating inner strength through controlling respiration(sanchin esque I imagine, qigong) And variations on techniques mastered through hard training. Which is not much different than the study of karate kata.

|
b. Poomsae containing practicable techniques : This includes practically used techniques only, which are classified into a series of chigi techniques, a series of makki techniques and a balanced combination of chigi and makki techniques.
|
c. Poomsae containing simple techniques : This is classified into the basic course and the advanced course, in the advanced course, the training of cultivating the inner strength of body by means of controlling the respiration is included. The variations of techniques should be mastered through hard training.
|

Their philosophy even fits in with the typical 2 year blackbelt. Most of these guys are looked upon by Karate outsiders who generally begin applications much sooner it seems than the Kukkiwon considers for TKD. But after reading what they say, basics, basics, basics up until advanced course(yudanja forms)it makes sense. After 2 years or so most people at a TKD school do have good basics, and most even more applications than set forth by Kukkiwon. After getting blackbelt, the hard work begins, more applications, years in between ranks. Problem is, most people stop the work at black belt and just ride along. But really, who cares about those ones right? not everyone has to learn martial arts. The poomse are for us. Taekwondo.

EDIT: Im also positive the Kukkiwon holds their 1st dan blackbelts basics to a much higher degree of standards.


Edited by Seiken (05/06/08 02:27 AM)

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#328350 - 05/06/08 05:18 AM Re: Should they re-invent their forms [Re: msb1964]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

"The Training Secrets of Taekwon-Do". These are:
1. To study the theory of power thoroughly.
2. to understand the purpose and method of each movement clearly.
3. To bring the action of eyes, hands, feet, and breath into on single coordinated action.
4. To choose the appropriate attacking tool for each vital point.
5. To become familiar with the correct angle and distance for attack and defence.
6. Keep both the arms and legs bent slightly while movement is in motion.
7. All movements begin with a backwards motion with very few exceptions.
8. To create sine wave during the movement by utilizing the knee spring.
All these are meant to help you on your road to learning TKD and making it easier in understanding what you are learning. Mike




Great stuff Sir & thanks for osting it. However you are missing point #9 which is every movement requires 1 breath, with the exeption of connecting motion.

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#328351 - 05/06/08 10:31 AM Re: Should they re-invent their forms [Re: ITFunity]
msb1964 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/30/08
Posts: 18
Quote:

Quote:

"The Training Secrets of Taekwon-Do". These are:
1. To study the theory of power thoroughly.
2. to understand the purpose and method of each movement clearly.
3. To bring the action of eyes, hands, feet, and breath into on single coordinated action.
4. To choose the appropriate attacking tool for each vital point.
5. To become familiar with the correct angle and distance for attack and defence.
6. Keep both the arms and legs bent slightly while movement is in motion.
7. All movements begin with a backwards motion with very few exceptions.
8. To create sine wave during the movement by utilizing the knee spring.
All these are meant to help you on your road to learning TKD and making it easier in understanding what you are learning. Mike




Great stuff Sir & thanks for osting it. However you are missing point #9 which is every movement requires 1 breath, with the exeption of connecting motion.




Thank you, sir. Always learning, always learning.

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#328352 - 05/06/08 10:06 PM Re: Should they re-invent their forms [Re: msb1964]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

"The Training Secrets of Taekwon-Do". These are:
1. To study the theory of power thoroughly.
2. to understand the purpose and method of each movement clearly.
3. To bring the action of eyes, hands, feet, and breath into on single coordinated action.
4. To choose the appropriate attacking tool for each vital point.
5. To become familiar with the correct angle and distance for attack and defence.
6. Keep both the arms and legs bent slightly while movement is in motion.
7. All movements begin with a backwards motion with very few exceptions.
8. To create sine wave during the movement by utilizing the knee spring.
All these are meant to help you on your road to learning TKD and making it easier in understanding what you are learning. Mike



Great stuff Sir & thanks for posting it. However you are missing point #9 which is every movement requires 1 breath, with the exeption of connecting motion.



Thank you, sir. Always learning, always learning.




Me Too!

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