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#327740 - 03/11/07 08:25 PM How do you be natural? How do you flow?
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
How do you do all this and be 'formless' or 'shapeless' and live with no inhibitions or obstructions to your 'flow' in life?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327741 - 03/11/07 09:12 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
grumbleweed Offline
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Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
Greene king IPA.
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"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#327742 - 03/12/07 07:38 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Taison Offline
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Be relaxed, calm and think things through. Be it MA, work, driving or partying. When is enough enough?

When I talk to new people, I smile, I make them smile and treat them as if I've known them for years. Although it may be a mask it works.

In sparring, I treat the dangers as natural. I'm relaxed and take things as they come. I don't plan 100 steps. If I see an opening, I take it and hopefully I'll win.

I date a girl. I treat her like a friend. I'm relaxed and don't really care if I impress her or not (except one girl I'm crazy about). I ask her number, she says "why don't you give me yours", I just smile and say "nevermind then" and walk away. She'll give you the phone number if she's interested.

How do I do it? Just be relaxed and take as things come. No need to plan it all out. I flow with the "life-stream", and usually let the stream take me where it wants.

But! It doesn't mean I'm greedy or ambitious. Nope, I'm greedy like an ogre. The 5c! Car, Condo, Cash, Capital, Career.

Be like water my friend, and let things happen as they happen, no need to direct your course.

-Taison out (drowning in the life stream)
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#327743 - 03/12/07 09:27 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
jkdwarrior Offline
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Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
I agree with Taison. Just relax. Emotions can be blinding.
Regarding the being fake when meeting people, use this in all areas at first. In other words fake it until it comes naturally. If you pretend to yourself that you don't care, then after a while you really learn not to.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#327744 - 03/12/07 01:01 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: jkdwarrior]
Stormdragon Offline
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Hmm, interesting. I guess maybe part of my problem I think is that I don't know who I really 'Am' I mean I have put on so many false persona's that now trying to find my own identity is an issue. I mean how do you do THAT?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327745 - 03/12/07 01:43 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Shadowtitan Offline
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Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
By growing up.
so genrally after puberty.
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#327746 - 03/12/07 03:14 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Stormdragon Offline
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Good point.
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#327747 - 03/13/07 02:40 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
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Who are you?

No idea. You have to find that out yourself.

Who am I?

I am one of many personas. On the forum, I'm the Kid Taison. Goofy, aloof, or downright retarded sometimes.

At work or university, I'm the social Taison who helps everyone.

At the dojo, I'm known only as "that sadistic freak" (I love making people squirm, it's fun).

At home, I'm the loner who loves listening to heavy metal.

Be yourself. That's what you should strive for. Be who you are at that moment. Even if it's a complete lie, if you are who you think you are, you are.

I don't encourage lying, but because I don't lie, many think I do lie of who I am. So what's the point in not lying when they don't believe me anyways? But in all seriousness, I don't lie. I am who I am and people don't believe me because I'm just that great being who have found a purpose in life and they're just jealous I'm able to accomplish what they'll only dream off.

Storm, be who you are and don't care what other think you are. Let the moment carry you and adapt to that moment, and be who you are at that moment.

I understand your mood swings. Unlike you, I'm very very emo. So emo infact, if you went up to me and starting joking about my beer belly, you might end up unconscious on the floor. Now, who has a worse mood swing? Count to 10, and think of green grass, blue sky, yellow flower. That should help with your mood swings, and dont reflect on stuff too much at night. Get your sleep and be one with the moment.

Storm, if you need help, I'm here. Although I might be the opposite of a psychatrist (a psychopath), I understand your situation most of the time.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#327748 - 03/13/07 07:03 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Hmm, interesting. I guess maybe part of my problem I think is that I don't know who I really 'Am' I mean I have put on so many false persona's that now trying to find my own identity is an issue. I mean how do you do THAT?





Maybe these false personas were really extensions of who you are. How do you know otherwise?

At your age, your identity is still forming and you're experimenting to find it. Don't worry so much about it and just let go of any desire for results.


-John

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#327749 - 03/13/07 03:27 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: JKogas]
Stormdragon Offline
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You know I think I might jsut analyse a little too much and need to stop forcing issues and let it all come on it's own. And thats true, I am young enough that I am still developing and so it's almost impossible to try and pin anything down.
Taison- We shall become very good friends...muahahahahahaha...yeah I'm a bit psycho to.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327750 - 03/13/07 03:34 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Shadowtitan Offline
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Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
Theres alot of reasons why puberty is so difficult, and you have found one, have fun finding and experiancing the rest!
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~Whaa?

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#327751 - 03/13/07 09:10 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Stormdragon Offline
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Ha ha very funny.
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#327752 - 03/13/07 11:14 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Joe7987 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 317
Loc: Orlando, FL
Quote:

Hmm, interesting. I guess maybe part of my problem I think is that I don't know who I really 'Am' I mean I have put on so many false persona's that now trying to find my own identity is an issue. I mean how do you do THAT?




The truth is... you are who you think you are. If you put on many false persona's, that is a part of who you are. You are how you think, act, and feel. There is nothing more.

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#327753 - 03/14/07 01:38 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Wanna feel the sharp edge of the "ban bat"?

Just kidding dude, but do keep these puberty jokes at a minimum please.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#327754 - 03/14/07 12:20 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Stormdragon Offline
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It was pretty funny though.
Anyway, so 'self' or 'I' is an illusion? Is that what Zen people they mean by that?
We just are. At any moment we just are. Interesting and kind of makes sense.
There is no objective 'self' just different aspects of how we behave.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327755 - 03/14/07 02:38 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Quote:

It was pretty funny though.
Anyway, so 'self' or 'I' is an illusion? Is that what Zen people they mean by that?
We just are. At any moment we just are. Interesting and kind of makes sense.
There is no objective 'self' just different aspects of how we behave.




Bhudda would disagree with this. I've read several of the Dali Lama's books and he suggests that we have to live in the moment in order to be who we really are. The difficult thing about this is that we have to give up everything we think we know about ourselves so that we can just be.

People DO have many different faces, but that is only from fear of being who they really are because of what society thinks will of them. We only have one way we truly behave naturally, it's just that things manipulate us into acting differently, mainly our own emotions and insecurities.

I agree that there is no objective self, everything we think is only an illusion, its in our heads. The real world is right here, in front of your computer. Look around the room you're in. This is the only reality, it's just so difficult to live in it because our minds are continually analysing and comparing. We are constantly somewhere else in our imaginations, but in the moment is where all the peace is and where everything will just flow. If you're worried that you're not being yourself, then you most certainly won't be because of this worry, it causes you to act differently. Becoming aware of the here and now is what zen meditation is all about.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#327756 - 03/14/07 03:24 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: jkdwarrior]
Shadowtitan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
So when your angry your the same as when you are happy? when im angry im usally quiter and tend to be colder to people, when im tired i hardly say anything to anyone but when im happy im more enthusiastic and can be a bit annoying. they are differnt personas created or brought on by mood i wouldent say im not acting like myself thouge. acting differntly around differnt people is what i would class as fake or a persona that is put on for society's sake. but we all do it genrally when we meet new people we want to make a good impression. also i dont think the way you act when you are alone is your real self, its just part of you. We cant just act one way becuse its just not possible, even an animal acts differnt when trying to find/impress a potential mate, is that a fake persona?
So to summirize everything the way we act alone or in differnt social situations is part of our real self the way you act in a social situation is the way you act under slight pressure.

I contradict myself in that but what i mean is if i had to class something as a fake persona etc it would be the way we act when meeting new people.

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#327757 - 03/14/07 05:02 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Stormdragon Offline
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Registered: 08/05/04
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I guess those are just different facets of 'Us'.
Some of these facets are just more negative than others and dangerous at times (I.E. any facets ruled by fear).
Some are of negative values and some are of positive but all are aspects of who we are and i na way we all share the same ones-and in a way we dont.
We just are. We are the sum of everythign we have experienced and thats it. An extension of that is that we are never the same. At the core we have a foundation of personality charachteristics based on genetics/physiology, but everything outside of that is the sum of 'nurture' or environmental influences. We are a combination of 'nature' and nurture. the ratio is the question. How much of each...
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327758 - 03/14/07 06:22 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Shadowtitan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
I think personality is solely enviromental the only reason people might have the characteristics of there parents is becuse they have been brought up by them.
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~Whaa?

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#327759 - 03/14/07 06:40 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Stormdragon Offline
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Actually no that is very false. Virtually all modern research in psychology and genetics point to the fact that at least some part of our psychology and behavior is decided by genetics and biology. It's a nonegotiable fact. Thats why we have people with mental disorders who need medication.
I have obsessive compulsive disorder and tourettes syndrome, and always have since I can remember. All the cognitive therapy I have done while helping a bit, has not come even close to curing me and actually medication only helps marginally. now if it was environmental I could deal with it, as others who develope OCD from streesful situations eventually and usually overcoem it fully but if you're born with it like me you cant. And I've had doctors say it is definitely the wiring of the brain, not a life experience. It is natural and still influences my thinking.
It is genetic.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327760 - 03/14/07 06:56 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Shadowtitan Offline
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Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
Ok but theres a differnce between your personality (attitude, likes and dislikes etc) and a gentic disorder.
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~Whaa?

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#327761 - 03/14/07 07:28 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Stormdragon Offline
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Registered: 08/05/04
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Not accurate. OCD can trigger a person to be 'obsessed' with say one person or an idea, a thought, or get real paranoid, worried constantly, it can strongly influence you behavior and personality which is who and what we are.
I am one who gets strongly 'obsessed' and attached to somce girls and get entirely focusedo nthem and end up thinkign about them constantly and only them. Thats OCD. Thats my perosnality, I am single minded and thats OCD.
Our perosnality is largely perceptio nand a schizophrenic person definitely has their perception and thinking influenced by their schizophrenia.
It's genetics and they strongly shape who we are.


Edited by Stormdragon (03/14/07 07:29 PM)
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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327762 - 03/15/07 12:03 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
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Hmm..

I have OCD too I think. When I get attached to a girl, it's really hard for me to let go. They're on my head all the time and everything else isn't as important anymore.

Back to Buddhism and Zen to the guy that posted. Zen and Buddhism is different. End of subject.

Basically, you are who you are. There's not much mystery to that. When you open the fridge, who's the guy opening the fridge? You. Does it get anymore simpler than that?

I don't wake up in the morning look myself in the mirror and ask "WTF are you??". Just accept who you are for the person who you really are.

It doesn't matter if you're emo, sad, depressed, hyper-eccentric... you're you. Nothing can take that away from you. Well, unless you decide to change drastically, then you'll end up being "new" but still you.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#327763 - 03/15/07 11:14 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Shadowtitan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
Quote:


I don't wake up in the morning look myself in the mirror and ask "WTF are you??".





lol
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~Whaa?

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#327764 - 03/15/07 11:32 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
sigh. . . first time I curse, I do it in the meditation forum. . . sigh. . .

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#327765 - 03/15/07 12:31 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Other OCD issues I have include touching and moving things in certain orders, or in sets of certain numbers like 7. Its pretty crazy. I even had the constant hand washing for awhile. then arranging things to be perfectly symmetrical (I still sometimes do that). Anyway, I also think about fighting constantly and martial arts. Obsessively.
I hate OCD.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327766 - 03/15/07 02:54 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Leonine Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 191
Whoa, thinking about martial arts and fighting all the time is OCD...uh oh...

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#327767 - 03/15/07 03:16 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Leonine]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
No I mean like that and girls is ALL that I think about, oh and psychology to. It's constant and unending.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327768 - 03/19/07 08:23 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Quote:

So when your angry your the same as when you are happy? when im angry im usally quiter and tend to be colder to people, when im tired i hardly say anything to anyone but when im happy im more enthusiastic and can be a bit annoying.



If you read my post again you'll find you're proving my point. It's our own emotions that make us act differently. "it's not the situation but how we react to it." This is a widly known fact that will be backed up by virtually any psychologist. Trait theory also suggests that it's actually our nervous systems that genetically engineer us to act in certain ways. interesting.
Quote:






When you meet new people, you don't usually let your real personality show out of fear that the other person won't be impressed. You're debating with the Dali Lama and many generations of wisdom here. I'm simply relaying information. Don't get me wrong though, he would be the first to admit his fallibility.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#327769 - 04/04/07 10:03 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: jkdwarrior]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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How do you rewire yourself to react differently? How do you control your own behavior and reactions to situations? I keep making the same old mistakes and doing the same stuff over.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327770 - 04/04/07 10:25 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Think twice before you do anything. For example;

Someone stares at me. I'd go up to him and ask "What you looking at?". Then I'd stare back right into his face like Vanderlei was on steroids.

If you wanted to rewire, you'd do this; "He's staring at me. Usually I'd go and stare back, but since I want to be a wuss, I'm just either going to ignore or avoid him."

Simple, isn't it? In reality, it's hard like hell.

Never figured out how to do it.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#327771 - 04/04/07 10:49 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
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Yeah for sure it is hard as hell. It seems like we have no control almost we have to do the stupid stuff eventually. At least when you have attachments hence why the buddha taught us to break our attachments.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327772 - 04/04/07 01:25 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Was going to try to write something supportive, but came across this. A little better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDSAAlrqAHM

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#327773 - 04/04/07 02:00 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: harlan]
jkdwarrior Offline
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Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
So basically we have to put people before ourselves and we'll learn to embrace the great people that we really are.
We have to make an effort to improve ourselves for the benefit of all.
I've heard many people say how much their life improved after finding religion (not that I'm religious). Is this not what religion teaches us? To put others before ourselves. It just so happens to be the way to enlightenment.
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#327774 - 04/05/07 02:30 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Taison Offline
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Believe it or not, even though I'm a strict buddhist, I am not able to follow his teachings.

I get attachments at all the time. I'm attached to my computer, I'm attached to my way of life, I'm attached to martial arts, I'm attached to being religious, I'm attached to any and all girls in my life.

What is to not get attached? Caring for something you love, is that not attachment?

Seeing my mother die and then tell me not to get attached? WTF is wrong with people. She was the being that gave birth to me, and then someone comes to me and says "don't get attached"? He deserves a fist in his face.

Sometimes religion only goes so far. I'm walking on the borderline between believing and practicing. I believe in his philosophy, but I don't practice it to a certain extent.

People only gets better when they are encouraged and motivated to. I for example, won't get any better if there's nothing to get better for. I'm happy with who I am and what I am, even if it does gets on people's nerves that I am happy with my life and that I have obtained only what a select few will ever get.

I'm not boasting, but I'm fluent in 4 languages, learning a new language, got 2 black belts, I'm linguistically talent which means I can pronounce any words in any language fluently even though I don't know what it means, and I'm usually 100% right about most things because when I do talk I know for sure it's right, or I wouldn't say a word.

Now doesn't that gets on your nerves if you know someone like that? It does for some people and all I can say is [censored] them. Like I care for those pathetic beings anyway. I can't help I spend my time doing more productive stuff instead of eat, sleep, study, eat, sleep, study.

I read a lot, hence I gain "street knowledge" as some people coins it. It just means I have a lot more general knowledge, and with MA I am able to apply things that I read to real life.

For example, I am able to blend in with any type of person. I have enough knowledge of most subjects to be able to have a conversation with anyone, be it political, religious, science, martial art, entertainment, sport, movies, sex (ok, bad choice), fashion, celebrities, history, etc etc.

Just because of one simple reason which believe can't believe. I read magazines.

People these days are so obsessed with getting good at one thing, they forget they have this little thing called 'life' to enjoy.

So here I am with people who are [censored] with me because I enjoy life to the full extent. I study when I have to, I work when I want, I buy stuff and I try new things daily (for example just now, I tried eating cottage cheese with blue berries) and I'm able to have a good laugh with anyone if they're friendly. I've been rubbing elbows with kids, teenagers, cute girls, ugly girls, old men, old women. I'm just that sociable sometimes. It's not some friggin' skill, it's called being 'nice' and 'understanding'.

Where was I? Oh yeah, being smooth. Just be who you are and make people smile. Trust me, I'm a very laconic person in real life, but I am able to get people to either love me or hate when I want them to.

Stupid stuff is just experience in our life.

I'd share with you a few stupid stuff but doing so I might be branded a stalker. Oh well, I guess I have to share it;

Once I used to like a girl, and back then I had absolutely NO CLUE whatsoever how to flirt. It was back in high school. Guess what? I sent her cards, sms, emails, called her and stuff. Guess what? I was acting like a stalker without knowing it.

Now isn't that stupid? To get a girl you like to be so friggin' scared of you that they won't go to class.

Here I am a few years later knowing that I had no chemistry with her whatsoever, and what I did was so hilarious I lmao everytime I think about it.

As for religion, it's a place where you put your faith. I put my faith in Lord Buddha, I put my faith in my mom's spirit, I put my faith in my hands which will carve my family's future someday, I put my faith in me. But I don't put faith in other men because if you want something done right you've got to do it yourself.

-Taison out
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#327775 - 04/05/07 12:40 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Stormdragon Offline
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Essentially you must learn to see the beauty and value in all things and 'experience' all the reasonable (cottage cheese and blueberries are NOT reasonable! ) things you can.
I guess it's the idea of just living and being i nthe moment rather than living 'for' something or spending all your time having the end in mind. It's the process that counts.
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#327776 - 04/05/07 03:54 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
jkdwarrior Offline
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I'm going to agree with you there Taison in that i feel it is probably almost impossible to live without attachment. At times it could be selfish, almost inhumane. How are we to cultivate feelings of compassion without becoming attached to people?

The Dali Lama does suggest somewhere however that non bhuddists could live by the teachings that are relevant to them. For example, I don't believe in Karma or reincarnation but i agree strongly with the idea of ousting emotions such as anger and fear, and cultivating the positive such as love and compassion.
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#327777 - 04/06/07 12:30 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Taison Offline
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Quote:

I guess it's the idea of just living and being i nthe moment rather than living 'for' something or spending all your time having the end in mind. It's the process that counts.




Exactly. Today I tried using chopsticks with my left hand, since I'm ambidextrous I wanted to try something new. Guess what? I utterly failed. Eating noodles using chopsticks in your off-hand is like the hardest thing ever. Anyway, it was fun to try.

Enjoy the moment, do what you want to do since in this life-time, you're only going to live it once. Even if you do re-incarnate, all the accomplishments, merits, everything you've done will be erased. Do what you want to do and make yourself happy with living life.

Live to live, not live to work your arse off, If I am to put it that bluntly.

-Taison out
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#327778 - 04/06/07 12:16 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Stormdragon Offline
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God I hate living in fear of what will come next. I must be pretty screwed up cuz I never stop worrying. Oh well life is fun anyhow. I'm really impatient to. Eh that's life.
It seems as though the more intense and serious and future oriented you get, the more tense and shaky you get and you star6t to break down at a certain point. It's like in a relationship where if you suddenly stop getting quite as much attention as you expect for a little while even if it doesn't mean anything you start to get extremely clingy as if you can pull things back but that solution only serves to drive people away usually so it's tough, you have to disciplin yourself.


Edited by Stormdragon (04/06/07 01:04 PM)
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#327779 - 04/06/07 04:23 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
trevek Offline
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Isn't belief in and adherence to a philosophy or teachings a form of attachment in itself?
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#327780 - 04/06/07 07:20 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: trevek]
Taison Offline
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It is.
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#327781 - 04/06/07 08:30 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Stormdragon Offline
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And one of the toughest to break if you were raised in a belief.
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#327782 - 04/10/07 11:04 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: trevek]
TimBlack Offline
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Quote:

Isn't belief in and adherence to a philosophy or teachings a form of attachment in itself?




Not if you're willing to stop believing in, and adhering to, that philosophy or doctrine if they are shown to be untenable or just plain incorrect. I mean, of course you are still 'attached', but it doesn't have the same negative connotations which your use denotes. So by all means have beliefs (and let's face it, you do. You couldn't function without them) but never be too attached to them to listen to the counter-argument and find yourself agreeing.
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#327783 - 04/11/07 11:21 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: TimBlack]
Stormdragon Offline
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Actually it can be a huge attachment in some cases which is the nature of bleief or faith. When you let go you know longer believe. Some people (like me for awhile) try to justify their belief even when it's blatantly wrong (or looks that way to them). It's what Sartre called bad faith or doublethink.
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#327784 - 04/11/07 01:24 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Shadowtitan Offline
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Thats why strict belivers are pretty annoying most of them that are too attached become very narrow minded about their belief(s). But i guess thats their flaw and instead of arguing with them we accept that particular characteristic about them and then avoid conflict, therefore avoiding a little bit of uneeded stress.
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#327785 - 04/11/07 02:04 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Taison Offline
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The thing with Buddhism is that you attach yourself to this principle, then when you're free of almost all your attachment, you give up on this philosophy as well called in Thai "Proong". Which means emptiness. Emptieness? Emptyness? [censored].

In the later stages of life for a buddhist monk, he stops doing some religious habits like "Tudong" (morning walk), but mantra and chants are still done. Basically as he gets older, he stops doing some activities that he's not able to do due to age.

I'm not an expert, but I do know that I'm pretty smart. Now where was I trolling?

Oh yeah, attachment sucks.

-Taison out
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#327786 - 04/11/07 02:05 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Taison Offline
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I'm pretty annoying too since I know too much info that's pretty useless for everyday life.

-Taison outx2
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#327787 - 04/11/07 04:14 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Shadowtitan Offline
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Well knowledge is power...
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#327788 - 04/11/07 07:19 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
ghost123123 Offline
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Quote:

Thats why strict belivers are pretty annoying most of them that are too attached become very narrow minded about their belief(s). But i guess thats their flaw and instead of arguing with them we accept that particular characteristic about them and then avoid conflict, therefore avoiding a little bit of uneeded stress.




"I'm *pretty* sure killing Jesus isn't very christian." -South Park

lol sorry it just reminded me of an episode.
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#327789 - 04/11/07 11:06 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: ghost123123]
Shadowtitan Offline
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I dunno, One could still call themselves christian after doing such a task, dose the fact that one dose not seem christian make them not christian? Is someone not christian becuse they do not belive or becuse they do not follow their rules or traditions?
Guess it depends on if you class someone as part of a relgion becuse they meet text book requirments, or if you class them solely on opinon.
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#327790 - 04/12/07 04:14 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Taison Offline
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We better get ourselves off the topic of Christianity as the majority of the forums are christians and some aren't really tolerable to discuss or question their belief like I am about Buddhism.

But in my honest opinion, I can rape, murder, burn and steal and still be Christian. Just that I have to accept that by doing those sins I will be overlooked by god, and probably burn in hell for it, which sucks.

A lot of criminals might not follow the ten commandments, but they can still believe in god and Christ. Don't see any reason why breaking a commandment would disqualify them of their belief.

"Damn, I murdered someone, now I gotta change religion!"

Doesn't quite work that way, don't you agree?

As for Longinus, he didn't kill Jesus Christ, he merely stabbed him to check if he was dead or not. And as he stabbed Jesus, Jesus bled water and blood, which is a phenomenon. The spear Longinus used was then henceforth known as the Spear of Destiny, or Spear of Longinus. Many have sought to aqcuire this artifact as it is said that it can increase your power tenfolds and grant you immortality. There are loads of replicas in the world. One is in Austria, one in Germany, one in USA and if I remember right, one is in the UK. The replicas might not be the real one, but they're pretty pretty expensive I can say.

Now, who said Christianity doesn't have mysticism?

-Taison out
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#327791 - 04/12/07 12:46 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Stormdragon Offline
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Ever hear of the 'Gnostics'? Those were Christian mystics.Andwhat happened to getting of christianity? Listen to your own rules! lol
I want immortality! ha ha
Christianity does kind of leave room to do what you want and still be saved becuase you can just keep asking forgiveness and if yo uare saved God or Jesus will overlook your sins but most Christians would say if you use it like that you were never a true christian in the first place.
I don't know it gets complicated.
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#327792 - 04/13/07 08:51 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
trevek Offline
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I don't think christianity has a monopoloy on killing, murdering etc and yet still proclaiming a belief. Buddhism, Taoism, and all the others have their own fair share.

Christianity does have mysticism. Carmelite mysticism for one. The Eastern Orthodox also has mystical practises.
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#327793 - 04/13/07 11:47 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: trevek]
Taison Offline
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You think I can rub elbows with both Azrael and Lucifer to avoid, you know, death and afterlife and all that stuff.

You see, I don't want to get burned for all eternity nor locked up in some gruesome chamber in darkness for all eternity.

-Taison out
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#327794 - 04/13/07 12:11 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Quote:

But in my honest opinion, I can rape, murder, burn and steal and still be Christian




...did you have a Crusader in mind?

Quote:

The spear Longinus used was then henceforth known as the Spear of Destiny, or Spear of Longinus. Many have sought to aqcuire this artifact as it is said that it can increase your power tenfolds and grant you immortality




If that's true, Longinus (the original owner) himself would be alive today and be the longest serving President of any country.



Quote:

Now, who said Christianity doesn't have mysticism




...do not confuse 'superstition' with 'mysticism'


BTW, since Buddhism and Taoism are not religions, how did these get into the discussion?
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#327795 - 04/13/07 12:20 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
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Don't know. But to continue the derail (as long as the mod isn't looking... ): referring back to Trevek's post...Buddhists killing? That's odd.

Quote:

[BTW, since Buddhism and Taoism are not religions, how did these get into the discussion?




And, yes, Christianity does have this stream. It's just been diverted and oppressed.

Quote:

...do not confuse 'superstition' with 'mysticism'




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#327796 - 04/13/07 01:02 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: harlan]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Quote:

And, yes, Christianity does have this stream. It's just been diverted and oppressed




I was rumored that Jesus went to India during His "lost" years and studied Yogic meditation and these were taught in secret initiations to selected disciples. Its mentioned somewhere in the New Testament; not the Yogic meditation, but the secret initiations. So there were 'secrets' even back then, and like all secrets, there die just as secretly. And since no one really knew what it actually was all about, it was oppressed, and it became labelled as 'mysticism'
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#327797 - 04/13/07 01:20 PM Non-hostile religion talk [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Stormdragon Offline
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What really bakes your noodle are the lost 'apocropha' books of the Bible. I have most if not all I think (unless there's a few I don't know about) and they are certainly unusual. Another guy named Jesus who was a scholar of those ancient times I think said that there really is no afterlife but we should be good anyway and focus on living in this life well. Another part I believe says about how Jesus (christ) supposedly said that people would not go to hell for all eternity but could get out eventually but no to tell anyone or they would do whatever they liked. (apparently that was told to one apostle or something).
Interesting stuff, true or not. Christianity does have genuine mysticism which I noticed especially when I went to some of the older churches in jerusalem for example the greek orthodox church or eastern orthodox ( I think).
Interesting stuff indeed.


Edited by Stormdragon (04/13/07 01:20 PM)
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#327798 - 04/13/07 01:29 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: harlan]
trevek Offline
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#327799 - 04/13/07 03:35 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: trevek]
trevek Offline
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back again,

here's a couple more:


http://www.sanskritboy.net/2004/01/15/buddhist_violence_in_sri_lanka.html
http://www.bodydharma.org/choices/violence/sivaraksa.html
http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/slrv.htm

Now I'm certainly not saying that the violence was 'faith/belief' driven, but if you consider that many Buddhist or Taoist nations had strong empires, I'm sure they never got these through meditation alone.

I'm not suggesting the nature of any faith or belief is responsible for violence either.What I'm considering is that in each faith there seems to be a point where violence can be justified to either an individual or a group.

Interestingly warriors are often considered a high caste, such as in India, but they are responsible for killing. Shaolin monks for example were formidable warriors but responsible for violence.

Presumably at some point the nature of violence must be settled within oneself to allow one to live with it or to allow one to flow with oneself.


Edited by trevek (04/13/07 03:55 PM)

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#327800 - 04/13/07 03:42 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: trevek]
harlan Offline
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Just a note of warning about this first link: the Trivaldis are notorious in their mispresentation of Buddhism and should be avoided.

(link removed)


Edited by harlan (04/13/07 03:58 PM)

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#327801 - 04/13/07 03:56 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: harlan]
trevek Offline
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Link removed, Harlan. Thanks for the warning.
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#327802 - 04/13/07 08:23 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: trevek]
Stormdragon Offline
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I think it is our own nature and selfishness that bring us to pervert peaceful religions and justify needless violence and you can do it with anything. Even the most peaceful of religions. It is mostly a matter of inner struggle with yourself.
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#327803 - 04/14/07 09:40 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil – that takes religion”

-- Weinberg.
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#327804 - 04/14/07 10:04 AM good vs. evil [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
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This thread is seriously derailed.

Who said it? 'All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.'

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#327805 - 04/14/07 01:07 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Stormdragon Offline
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Quote:

“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil – that takes religion”

-- Weinberg.





That is blatantly wrong. Look at Hitler. Started out fine and went crazy. Not religious though. That is a complete generalization. How do you say they are good anyway?
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#327806 - 04/15/07 09:15 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Taison Offline
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Buddhism isn't a religion, it's a philosophy.

Then again, Theravada Buddhism that Thai people follow is.. a religion. You got Lord Buddha in the heaven, you've got loads of angels and stuff, then you got hell. Very similar to Christianity.

When you do die, your sins will be weighed against the merit and it shows where you will end up. Either in heaven or hell, for a few cycles until you're able to reach Nirvana in a lifetime - only then will you be released.

Thai Buddhism is very religious, not so philosophical like the Chen/Zen or Mahayana variation.

-Taison out
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#327807 - 04/15/07 01:50 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Shadowtitan Offline
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Stormdragon he was saying that relgion dosent stop people being bad or good. althouge the way it was phrased was misleading, it was a bad quote. bad people do evil? im pretty sure apparently good people did evil, if a king goes to war for relgiouse reasons im sure his people think he is good but the other side think he is evil, so anything that defines right and wrong is opinon, and anything thats puts it so simply and catogrizes people simply into good or bad is damm annoying.
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#327808 - 04/16/07 12:51 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil – that takes religion”

-- Weinberg.





That is blatantly wrong. Look at Hitler. Started out fine and went crazy. Not religious though. That is a complete generalization. How do you say they are good anyway?





Please read again..."With OR without religion,.......bad people can do evil..."

How do you say they are good anyway?

Would you say that the Pope and his Cardinals who put Galileo on trial for heresy 350 years ago were good people?

BTW, the Vatican issued a belated apology to Galileo in 1992, 350 years after his trial. If not for Galileo's close connections with the powerful Medici family, God knows what the Vatican would have done to him, in the name of God of course.
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I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#327809 - 04/16/07 09:13 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Ok, wait, right there. Stop. Time out. Phase shift down. Time lapse. Slow-mo. Whatever Hi-tech sawy words you want to do, just stop RIGHT THERE.

This thread is becoming a religious debate. That's a big no no. No more talkie of this, or I'll be forced to lock this thread down.

Get back to topic OR this thread will be locked.

Remember, Religion isn't to be discussed here. I'm merely keeping order here.

Be civil, and let's go back to the topic.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#327810 - 04/16/07 05:58 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Taison]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
"But for good people to do evil takes religion."
How do you define good people?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327811 - 04/16/07 06:45 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Shadowtitan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
Dose it really matter?
_________________________
~Whaa?

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#327812 - 04/18/07 02:00 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Yes. If you don't know what good is then how do you know what bad is and what to and to not punish or stop?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327813 - 04/19/07 12:12 AM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Shadowtitan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
Unless you have no morals then its going to be clear to someone what they perceive as bad or wrong, Why ask someones opinion to continue your argument of how whoever posted that quote was wrong. You cant prove something that is soley opinion wrong.
_________________________
~Whaa?

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#327814 - 04/19/07 07:06 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Shadowtitan]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I'm saying now that you need a standard for right and wrong.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#327815 - 04/19/07 07:12 PM Re: How do you be natural? How do you flow? [Re: Stormdragon]
Shadowtitan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
So your taking the topic in a new direction? Fair enougth.
Sorry i misenterpreted, I thought you were unpurposely trying to continue the regliouse thing.
_________________________
~Whaa?

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