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#327595 - 03/10/07 06:13 PM aikido or aikijutsu
kibadachi1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 74
Loc: coble
what is the difffernce between aikido and aiki jujutsu?

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#327596 - 03/10/07 06:39 PM Re: aikido or aikijutsu [Re: kibadachi1]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
_________________________
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#327597 - 03/10/07 07:14 PM Re: aikido or aikijutsu [Re: MattJ]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
It's a hard thing to answer. What type of Aikido, pre-war or post-war? And what style of pre-war or post-war Aikido? Forinstance Yoshinkan, Yoseikai (both pre-war) and Iwama (post-war) show alot of similarity's to Daito Ryu.

In some ways I'm tempted to call Aikido: Ueshiba-Ha Daito Ryu.

In general some differences in technique are that Aikido likes to step off line and pivot. Daito Ryu likes move in a linear fashion and control that single line.

On that other thread, there was alot of talk about the smaller number of techniques in Aikido. But, once again, what kind of Aikido? Yoshinkan has thousands of techniques.

In terms of philosophy, the most often cited difference between the two, well I just don't know. Which is why I started this thread:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=0#Post15925777

for people to try and get to the bottom of just what the diffirence ACTUALLY is between them.
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#327598 - 04/08/07 02:15 AM Re: aikido or aikijutsu [Re: Ames]
daitoryustudent Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 7
I have some insight to add to this discussion. I'm currently learning Aikijutsu right now. My instructor is a dan that has achieved high ranks in many arts including karate, jiujitsu and aikijutsu. His favorite one out of them all is daitoryu aikijutsu in its pure form. He has knowledge of aikido and practiced it as well. He told me the difference is this, aikido is a branch of aikijutsu. aikijutsu was around first and it is ancient. It was used by the samurai thousands of years ago. Its written history was lost for hundreds of yrs until master takeda brought it back to the forefront. From that point on master takeda taught it to many people. Some of those people developed their own styles from it, variations you could say. Aikido is one of them. The guy who created it learned from master takeda. Its historical fact. Same as the guy who created Hapkido. Aikido is more circular, it is not as direct and it is more about avoiding contact you move more like a bull fighter in that art. Daitoryu goes straight at you before you even attack sometimes, and sometimes it just deflects and disables the first attack. The reason I say the first one is that Daitoryu when performed correctly, makes it so that no second attack can ever happen. In Aikido the principles are there but sometimes if you move in your circle too slow or if you screw up the attacker has more of a chance for a second attack. I've physically seen and experienced the difference my teacher used both on me to show me the difference in many situations. They are both useful martial arts just one is a bit more brutal than the other(Daitoryu), and the second one(Aikido)is more pretty to watch especially in movies where the guy throws himself for Steven Segal.

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#327599 - 04/08/07 02:21 AM Re: aikido or aikijutsu [Re: daitoryustudent]
daitoryustudent Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 7
just to add a second thought I would like to state that I feel that both arts are slightly superior to any flashy striking art but again depends on the practicioner. A kung fu master would probably kick my ass but my teacher would hand him his as soon as he makes his first move. Scientifically there isn't away to bring your hand or foot back fast enough to not get tossed by an Aiki master once you've committed to an attack. Reason one, second you moved they did too and they got closer to you taking your range away, second they probably grabbed your half extended limb already, third now that limb is broken cause you took a tenth of a second to think of a counter attack. You lost thats the whole fight right there.

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#327600 - 04/08/07 05:14 PM Re: aikido or aikijutsu [Re: daitoryustudent]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Quote:

Scientifically there isn't away to bring your hand or foot back fast enough to not get tossed by an Aiki master once you've committed to an attack. .




That's the key though, a 'commited attack'. From my experiance, I would never say scientifically there arn't any ways to bring your hand back fast enough. Get in the ring with a boxer and he'll show you several. Why? Because a good striker doesn't commit to any attack. The first shot is just that: the first of several.
_________________________
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#327601 - 05/02/07 02:11 PM Re: aikido or aikijutsu [Re: daitoryustudent]
northstar Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 40
Quote:

Scientifically there isn't away to bring your hand or foot back fast enough to not get tossed by an Aiki master once you've committed to an attack. Reason one, second you moved they did too and they got closer to you taking your range away, second they probably grabbed your half extended limb already...




It sounds like you practise a similar principle that is in real Chinese martial arts as well. 'Sticking' on, sensitivity... we are taught to 'stick' onto our opponent when we strike and move with them, control them to make an opening to strike again, apply a lock, throw, take down, etc.

The 'second you move' principle you describe is also taught as an essential in what I have trained in. As soon as they move, you step in and intercept their attack and start applying your princples.

There are 2 anecdotes which I feel are appropriate in summing up the theories that we both practise; "The hands never come back empty" (regarding sticking on) and "You move after your opponent does but arrive their first" (regarding intercepting).

A little OT, but I'm not really impressed with traditional Chinese martial arts giving people the impression that they are 'flashy striking arts' because they are far from that.

At the same time I'm genuinely happy to see such principles practised outside of the arts that I study.

Regards

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#327602 - 05/02/07 02:21 PM Re: aikido or aikijutsu [Re: northstar]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
I would call that "scientific" statement presented as "fact" a dangerously, perhaps lethally, flawed assumption.

Does not matter what art your doing--once you assume that outcomes/results are somehow "fixed" or "guaranteed" your asking for trouble--maybe serious trouble.



Edited by cxt (05/02/07 02:24 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#327603 - 05/16/07 11:45 AM Re: aikido or aikijutsu [Re: cxt]
northstar Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 40
I don't believe that high level martial arts really assume fixed outcome and if they do, then it shouldn't matter because at a high level they can change and control the situation quickly.

Also, even a non-committed attack like a jab can be intercepted. Rather than someone stepping into you, you can step in quickly and break it off at an upward angle.

Your movement starts afterward but arrives first.

Quote:

Does not matter what art your doing--once you assume that outcomes/results are somehow "fixed" or "guaranteed" your asking for trouble--maybe serious trouble.



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