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#327000 - 03/07/07 10:32 PM Toshishiro Obata and Aiki Jutsu
tomh777 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Metro Detroit
For anyone who's interested here's a link discussing Toshishiro Obata and his creation of Aikibujutsu. Obata was the uchi deshi for Gozo Shioda for 8 years, and well respected in Yoshinkan before breaking away and forming his own style. As I've mentioned in previous posts Obata was my sensei's biggest influence. Even though many of you have done a pretty good job convincing me that I don't practice true aiki jutsu, you still might find the information regarding Obata's philosophy, curriculumn, etc, kind of interesting.

Peace
aiki-buken.com

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#327001 - 03/08/07 04:56 PM Re: Toshishiro Obata and Aiki Jutsu [Re: tomh777]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
From reading that webpage and the main page, it seems (without attending classes), that it's pretty decent Aikido, with a big emphasis on weapons. I don't really see it as Daito Ryu though, but then again they don't directly call it Daito Ryu. The techniques of Yoshinkan were modified enough to make them Aikido and not Aikijujutsu. If this weren't so, Gozo Shioda wouldn't have called his art 'Yoshinkan Aikido'. I couldn't really figure out why Obata felt the need to change the name of his style from Aikido to 'Aikibujutsu'? Perhaps because of the inclusion of weapons techniques? Still there are other Yoshinkan sensei who have included weapons training at their dojo, but simply call those classes 'iaido', or 'jodo'. Kimeda Sensei in Toronto comes to mind.

Anyway, it's not like Obata is trying to say that his art is Daito Ryu.

The one thing is Tom, I didn't see any referance to Bagua or Muay Thai in there, and you were saying your sensei trains these arts and has included them in your curriculum. I'm wondering if teachers of this style (Aikibujutsu Tanren Kenkyukai) are allowed to cross train and alter the waza based on their new knowledge?

Chris


Edited by Ames (03/08/07 04:57 PM)
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#327002 - 03/08/07 10:56 PM Re: Toshishiro Obata and Aiki Jutsu [Re: Ames]
tomh777 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Metro Detroit
Whether or not they are "allowed" to cross train I have no idea. Our dojo is not an authorized Aikibujutsu Tenren Kenkyukai. As I've searched my memory banks, in a video my sensei recorded about 10 years ago he also mentions influences such as Katsumi Niikura of Ryokyukai Aikido Tenchi Shin, British Jiu Jitsu (please forgive me but what is that(?), as well as several American sensei's I'm not familiar with. Either way, Shakoor speaks extremely highly of Obata. When I finally picked up a copy of Obata's book, "Samurai Aiki Jutsu (out of print), and the DVD of the same name, I had an "Aha" experience and said to myself, "So that's what I do."(minus the Muay Thai strikes and Tai Chi blocks of course). When I have a chance I'm going to review Shakoors video tape to see if anyone recognizes any of the names of his influences that I don't. On a whole different note...for crying out loud!! This board is addictive! I don't have time for all these discussions . But seriously, this is great discussion and I feel like I'm getting a real education. Because when it comes to martial arts I really am just a

Peace

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#327003 - 03/09/07 07:10 AM Re: Toshishiro Obata and Aiki Jutsu [Re: tomh777]
sandan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 8
Not many people seem to now of Obata and how much influence he's had in the martial atrs world, he's a modern day samuri. there used to be a magazine in the uk a few years ago written by a Karateka turned actor Terry o'neil which focused on Aikido a great deal. it had an article where Obata cut into a Samuri helmet with a sword made the traditional way.He's also in many movies.

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#327004 - 03/09/07 07:19 AM Re: Toshishiro Obata and Aiki Jutsu [Re: tomh777]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Quote:

, British Jiu Jitsu (please forgive me but what is that(?),
Peace




Do you mean Baritsu by any chance?
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#327005 - 03/09/07 06:48 PM Re: Toshishiro Obata and Aiki Jutsu [Re: Prizewriter]
tomh777 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Metro Detroit
Nope,

My instructor don't got no training in bar art...But seriously, I looked at the tape, and the reference was to "British Martial Arts" that had influenced Professor Florendo Visitacion in his development of Vee Jitsu Te. With all my ranting and raving about Obata, in the video tape my sensei did about 10 years ago he doesn't even mention Obata. Now my next goal is to jump over to the Judo/Ju Jitsu board and ask questions about Florendo Visitacion and Moses Powell.

Peace.

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#327006 - 03/09/07 07:01 PM Re: Toshishiro Obata and Aiki Jutsu [Re: tomh777]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Quote:

Now my next goal is to jump over to the Judo/Ju Jitsu board and ask questions about Florendo Visitacion




Better to go to the Filipino board to ask about Visitacion, although he did study Jujutsu from Wally Jay (Small Circle) and Kiyose Nakae. However, his first art was Arnis and this informs the style the most. He also trained Mongolian Wrestling and Chinese IMA (internal martial arts), as well as others I can't remember now. Had a friend who briefly studied this style before he moved. Seems like a pretty interesting method. Didn't hear of any direct Aiki study in it though.

Prizefighter: I thought Bartitsu died out a long time ago?
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#327007 - 03/09/07 08:30 PM Re: Toshishiro Obata and Aiki Jutsu [Re: Ames]
tomh777 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Metro Detroit
Thanks for the info. This search for just what the heck am I studying anyway is getting interesting. Maybe I'll actually have time to work out one of these days and actually ask my sensei this stuff. By the way I did a brief web search regardin baritsu and it appears that baritsu is a fictional martial art spoken of in Sherlock Holmes novels.

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#327008 - 03/09/07 08:44 PM Re: Toshishiro Obata and Aiki Jutsu [Re: Ames]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
It is as far as I know, but was the only "British Ju Jitsu" that I knew of. I think there have been several books recently published about it though.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#327009 - 03/09/07 08:44 PM Re: Toshishiro Obata and Aiki Jutsu [Re: tomh777]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Nope it was a real martial art. One of the first eccletic martial arts which blended east and west traditions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartitsu

http://www.bartitsu.org/

In the case of 'British Jiu-jitsu' it probably refers to a society or association such as:

http://www.bjjagb.com/

Quote:

Thanks for the info. This search for just what the heck am I studying anyway is getting interesting. Maybe I'll actually have time to work out one of these days and actually ask my sensei this stuff




Things I would ask him are: With all the arts thrown in the mix, what is it about what he does that makes it 'Aiki' enough to use that prefix? Also what amount of time did he spend learning a tradional Aiki system and what rank did he acheive? And what did he feel was lacking in his tradional training to make him leave his teacher and create a new martial art?

And something I would ask yourself: Do you really want to seriously pursue the study of Aiki, or are you looking to become the toughest guy on the street (not that the two are exclusive of each other)?


Edited by Ames (03/09/07 09:06 PM)
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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