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#325138 - 02/27/07 10:06 AM Styles Represented?
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
Just curious to know how many different styles of Eskrima, Arnis, and/or Kali are represented here?

I have studied Doce Pares and Modern Arnis.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

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#325139 - 02/27/07 11:55 AM Re: Styles Represented? [Re: KJ63]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
My instructor is a student of the following people:

Cacoy Canete - Doce Pares
Dionese Canete - Doce Pares
Bobby Taboata - Balintawak
Nene Tortal - Dekiti Tersia
Dan Inosanto - Lacosta-Inosanto Blend
Chris Sayoc - Sayoc Kali

I think there are a few others, but I can't think of them.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#325140 - 02/27/07 12:17 PM Re: Styles Represented? [Re: KJ63]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I've studied under an instructor who was trained by dan the man himself, but that was short lived. I have mostly acquired what I know through seminars (Garimot being of particular interest), sparring and hangin out in kali groups around town. I see kali in much the same way as the Dog Bros - that if it isn't tested full contact, it isn't worth much. Experience has taught me that a lot of the fancier moves in FMA stick/knife fighting just don't work in real time with real position. Of course, I've mainly used padded sticks when 'experimenting'

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#325141 - 02/28/07 06:24 PM Re: Styles Represented? [Re: ShikataGaNai]
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
Quote:

I see kali in much the same way as the Dog Bros - that if it isn't tested full contact, it isn't worth much. Experience has taught me that a lot of the fancier moves in FMA stick/knife fighting just don't work in real time with real position.




ShikataGaNai,
I don't want to get off topic here but I thought I would respond to your comments. I have been involved in several full contact stick fights both while training in the Philippines and here in the States. I would agree that full contact does add some realism and gives you an opportunity to test your ranges and techniques, but then again there are many, many areas where these full contact contests fall short of the real thing, since ultimately the real thing would involve swords or bolos. Let me give you a few examples:

"Defanging the Snake" this is taught in many styles of Arnis, Eskrima and/or Kali, but becomes next to impossible to do on someone wearing a padded glove. In some cases these people are wearing hockey gloves, so not only are they not dropping their stick, their not even feeling the strike or reacting to it.

The bulky gloves also make it very hard to effectively use your check-hand. Many of the "fancy" moves you may be referring to are not done, not because they are impossible or impractical in real life, but because they are impossible with a big glove on. I eventually stopped wearing protection on my check-hand and was able to pull off several disarms, stick grabs, and take-downs during full contact, but they are still difficult to do when I reach across and grab padding instead of grabbing a hand or arm.

"Espada y Daga" or "Punta y Daga" or "Olisi y Baraw" depending on which dialect you speak or style you learned Sword and Dagger techniques (one of my personal favorites) completely loose there value with stick fighting. With sticks the person you are fighting fears the big stick (the sword) because it can do the damage but no one fears the 8" stick (dagger), which is completely contrary to real life. In real the dagger is just as deadly if not the deadlier of the two. The last "Dog Brother style" fight I was in the guy I was paired up with knew very little about stick fighting. He was into Brazilian jiu-jitsu. He just kept swing wildly (which I easily avoided and returned a few good solid hits to his hockey gloves... uhg!), and then he got frustrated and tackled me. He was able to submit me but not before I had hit him some 20 times with my dagger stick. In stick fighting (if you want to call it that) he gets a win... in real, he would be dead.

Poking or thrusting techniques become pointless (literally). These are rarely used in full contact because youíre not going to do the same damage to someone. In a stick fight you can poke me with a stick all day and while your doing that I'm gonna take your head off. Now with swords, when you cock your arm back for one of those big power swings I'm gonna thrust the tip of my sword through your heart. So they actually rely on completely different tactics.

The mental aspect also changes. People can psych themselves up to take a couple good solid blows from a stick, but you give the same two people knives and/or swords and you will see a completely different type of fight. No ones gonna be thinking, "I'll take one across the thigh or ribs to score a hit on his head."

These are just some examples. Doing full contact with sticks might make you a good stick fighter, but doesn't necessarily improve or prepare you for edged weapons any more than a style that doesn't do full contact, because a sword fight is not determined by pain tolerance or who can hit harder.

I do agree that there are techniques that are done for flare or for show that you would not be able to pull off, or even want to try to pull off, in a real fight... but then again you could say that about every martial art out there and not just FMA.


Saisho,
Looks like you have a great opportunity to learn a lot. Iím definitely jealous.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

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#325142 - 02/28/07 11:57 PM Re: Styles Represented? [Re: KJ63]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
KJ, I did have a great opportunity and I look forward to finishing school so I can go back to training with that instructor.

I enjoy doing all of the styles he trains in and teaches, but I prefer to learn the Lacoste-Inosanto Blend and the Balintiwak.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#325143 - 03/01/07 12:19 AM Re: Styles Represented? [Re: KJ63]
JoshuaMonjin Offline
Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 427
Loc: Fallon, Nevada
Just started learning Doce Pares Eskrima/Eskrido from a guy who was a student of "Cacoy" Canete. Quite fun
_________________________
Jikishin kore dojo nari

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#325144 - 03/11/07 03:33 AM Re: Styles Represented? [Re: KJ63]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I agree with kj, wearing all that padding changes it from learning how to really fight with sticks to learning how to win in a sport.

As many know about me because I have mentioned it before, my brother and I are learning FMA/JKD La Costa style from a DVD instructional by Dan Inosanto. After practicing for several months and using gloves to help us learn long and middle range. learning to de-fang the snake and mid range checks and disarms. This would be impossible as KJ said in full in padded competitions. However, just like I do with my Olympic style Taekwondo continuous sparring bouts. I train to apply each technique as if it were a seperate scenerio. for instance if i were to counter a spinning back kick with a scoot back + a rear leg round kick and score on my opponenet on his ribs on the target chest protector he/she is wearing. Then in my mind i did not just score a point, but in a self defense/fighting scenerio I just broke his/her ribs.

The same way I apply this way of thinking when I train with boxing gloves for defenaging the snake. when I or my brother wack each other from long range or attack the hand holding the weapon in order to check them in mid range, I we immediatly let go of the weapon just as we would if we were hit on the hand. Because in real life I know for a fact that I would instantly drop my stick/knife if I was wacked hard with a stick on my hand.

I know this because we have hit each other by accidently on many occasions and just knikcing the fingers by accident does enough damage to make you want to scream $hi+. So imagine the damage being amplified several times over but instead of an accidental hit your getting hit itentionally on yhour bare hand.

So dog brothers sparring style is great for practice as long as you take into account its more for practice, than it is to win. It's excellant way to practice your long range skills. in this case winning shouldn't be the goal, it should be improving your footwork and knowing your angles and distances.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#325145 - 03/11/07 05:05 PM Re: Styles Represented? [Re: TeK9]
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
Great stuff Tek9...
I was lucky enough to catch a Dan Inosanto seminar some 10 years ago or so. The information he gives out is overwelming, so many techniques. Half way through the seminar I started wishing I'd a snuck in a video camera, because I had already forgot what he showed in the beginning.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

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#325146 - 06/09/07 12:37 PM Re: Styles Represented? [Re: KJ63]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I've learned my stick and knife fighting from Tom Sotis (AMOK/ International Blade Fighters' Guild) which has a lot in common with Arnis. Is that Filipino enough for these conversations? (As much as he likes Filipino arts, he is not Filipino but is one h3ll of a fighter).
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

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#325147 - 06/09/07 03:32 PM Re: Styles Represented? [Re: underdog]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
I've done Decuerdas Eskrima in the past, & am now looking into Kali Ilustrisimo to go along with my Silat (Ratu Adil). Right now I'm just getting the Ilustrisimo from vids, but I want to go down & train with Topher Ricketts down in San Diego, mabye once or twice a month.

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