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#324987 - 02/26/07 03:23 PM rotator cuff
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Anyone got any experience of rotator cuff problems?

I have some discomfort in my back, around my shoulder blade. I also get slight numbness and tingling in my arms occasionally. A fellow puppeteer suggested RC. Any suggestions?

I'm aiming on seeing a doctor this week but he might not speaka-da-good-angielski.

My wife has suggested it is all because I spend too much time on FA.com
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See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#324988 - 02/26/07 03:28 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Lorton, VA
I had a pretty bad bout of Rotator Cuff Tendonitis a couple years ago. A few sessions with a physical therapist sorted that out.

It still gets tender from time to time, but if I keep up with my stretches and exercize, I'm good to go.
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In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#324989 - 02/26/07 05:26 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Yup, have exerpienced this twice with a real bad bout where I had to see a physcical therapist. This last time was about 5 or 6 years ago and after extensive work in my yard due to removing lawn and putting in tons of washed rock, as well at that time I was weight lifting hard, the darn thing tore fairly bad. I was out of doing anything for 3 months which sort of sucked a bit because in the final months I went to Cancun and it still bugged me a bit.

It's been fairly good since then and though surgery was an option at that time, it wasn't something I believe I needed. I still have problems and my shoulders are weak and it is important that I pay attention to the pains I have otherwise I could be rehabbing for longer and actually having surgery; and from what I know that isn't too good. But I believe this exta attention and good solid weight lifting with good form and technique have at least made me better then if I wasn't doing anything at all.

In December of 2004 I crushed my vertebrea and then reagrivated it in April of 2005. Both I assumed it was my rotator cuff because the symptoms were initially similar. Make sure that you get yourself checked out and identify what the real problem is and then look at getting treatment to get yourself back into a steady routine again.

Get better and good luck.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#324990 - 02/26/07 09:08 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Numbness and tingling (along with the location) would indicate something more along the lines of impingement or nerve tension. It is really impossible for me to make any kind of guess without having a complete history and being able to do tests.

Go to the doctor and tell him/her you feel you need to see a physical therapist (physiotherapist).
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#324991 - 02/27/07 04:24 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Thanks guys.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#324992 - 02/27/07 08:43 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I have had tendonitis in the shoulder and elbow areas for many years. Just have to learn to take it easy when it acts up.
_________________________
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#324993 - 02/27/07 04:21 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: MattJ]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Oh, that's what I'm in-tendon to do if necessary.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#324994 - 02/27/07 05:18 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North


As a note, my collar bone and also my crushed vertebrae gave me similar pains and numbness. I hope yours is the minor of the two or even simpler then that. Get better soon and take care.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#324995 - 02/28/07 08:49 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
Borrek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 501
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Quote:

Anyone got any experience of rotator cuff problems?

I have some discomfort in my back, around my shoulder blade. I also get slight numbness and tingling in my arms occasionally. A fellow puppeteer suggested RC. Any suggestions?

I'm aiming on seeing a doctor this week but he might not speaka-da-good-angielski.

My wife has suggested it is all because I spend too much time on FA.com




The telltale sign of a rotator cuff issue is a diminished range of motion. Do you experience any pinching or pulling type pain when you move your arm above your head?

The thing about rotator cuff problems is that the only way to really be sure is to do an MRI. When I saw my doctor about my issues he torqued my shoulder through all kinds of angles, asking "how bad does this hurt?" over and over. So expect that from your doc too.

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#324996 - 03/03/07 05:34 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Borrek]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Thanks for all the info and advice guys.

I went to the docs and he did the moving thing you mentioned. Thing was it didn't hurt.

He also said 'relax' which is a crazy thing to say to a theatre person as it mean I relly relaxed my arms, so when he turned me one way my arms whipped out and sent his jar of pencils crashing to the floor!

Anyway, he reckons its some kind of tension and put me on anti-inflammatories and muscle relaxants. Also told me no dynamic exercise, like TKD (I suppose it rules out the capoeira too!).

The tai chi is ok tho'.

Thanks for the description of RC pains. I don't have these so I guess I can keep doing my puppets over head.

Thanks again.

TREV:-)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#324997 - 03/21/07 07:40 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
70% sure from reading your post and what the doctor said that it is coming from your neck... Scapular pain is almost always due to a pinched nerve in the neck... Numbness and tingling is also almost always due to a pinched nerve in the neck... Easy way to tell is to keep the rest of your body still and just move the neck in different directions (forward, sideways, up, down, like a chicken, tuck, rotation), if you can produce or reduce the pain with just this movement then BINGO, you got your source of pain... Anti-inflammatories will also help but they go to the entire body and that aching knee of yours suddenly feels better as well... Keep us posted.
_________________________
"There is no right or wrong way, just a better way"... Soke Robert Murphy

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#324998 - 03/21/07 09:09 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: wiggy]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
sounds torn, like mine was.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#324999 - 03/22/07 03:10 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Chen Zen]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
i had a tear in my left rotator cuff (supra spinatus) in nov/dec '06. It was a reoccurrence of damage done in my late teens/early 20's. Anyway, got it physio'd and did the rehab, and got back on track. saturday just gone, I woke up, got out of bed, went to stretch and 'OH 5H1T!!!!' the darn shoulder was screwed. no reason it should be, but it was real bad. Couldnt abduct my arm more than 20 degrees from my side, and as for any external rotation-

ice and mobilisation (the usual) started immediately, and I compensated with right arm dominated actions for the weekend, but come monday it was not really any better. Got booked in with my doc for wednesday morning, and went to work thinking I would be OK. Wrong. I drive quite a lot at work, and using stick shift requires rotator cuff manipulation- it was not only painfull, but downright dangerous in the effect it had on my driving. We also have to use keys, open doors, have the potential to restrain people- all stuff that I havent a hope of doing at the mo. Doc has signed me off for 2 weeks, and i am currently busy getting the cuff back in working order.
rotator cuffs blow
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#325000 - 03/22/07 03:27 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Cord]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Being a two time former recipient to a torn rotator cuff, I feel for everybody's pain. Cord, get better ... you are in good hands ... your own.

My shoulders bug me from time to time as well especially if I over due Lat Pulldowns. Always afraid I'm going to re-injure this again so I try to be careful but I'm also stubborn. Don't be a Dereck ... be a Cord.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#325001 - 03/23/07 07:25 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Dereck]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I forgot to mention, as well as the rehab, I have been given some pretty funky medication. Dihydrocodein, valium, and anti inflammatories. they have certainly taken the adge off my shoulder pain, but quite frankly the last time my head felt like this I was in my mid 20's listening to Darkside of the Moon in my friends flat
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#325002 - 03/23/07 07:51 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Cord]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
My shoulders were a constant problem in my teens due to bad lifting practice. Ive torn each of them. My right twice and my left 3 times. I also went through physical therapy for them at the same time that I was going for my broken neck. All is better now, though every now and then when I have to lift a lot of weight, like roofing a house, then they'll be a little achy for a few days and inflamed but nothing some Icy Hot and Playstation cant fix.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#325003 - 03/24/07 06:50 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: wiggy]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Hi Wiggy,

that sounds likely. I noticed it got worse after a long train journey and a lot of reading, hunched over a book on my knees. Likewise, since we got a laptop, rather than using the big monitor on my pc, I've also been hunched a lot.

Since I've reduced this it got a bit better. Went for a massage too and that helped a bit. I do tend to click a lot between the scaps. I find lying down on the floor (especially with a rolled towel up the spine) produces a drum-roll of clicks. Also relieves the stress a bit.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#325004 - 03/24/07 07:47 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
Trevek,
Sounds like you know what aggravates it... So avoid slouched sitting, get up every 20' and walk around, and try performing some retraction stretches (10x every 1-2 hours.... provided that it helps you and doesn't make your pain worse).

Best picture I found on the web for retraction is mentioned below... You can advance to retraction and extension of the neck if you feel better but not "cured"... I also found a book that is good for reference is called "treat your own neck"... Seriously there is a book out there written by a physiotherpist called this with an explanation of causes of pain and exercises to do in the event of pain.

Hope all of this helps and you are back on the mat.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...en%26rls%3DSUNA,SUNA:2006-40,SUNA:en%26sa%3DN
_________________________
"There is no right or wrong way, just a better way"... Soke Robert Murphy

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#325005 - 03/25/07 02:20 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: wiggy]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Thanks Wiggy,

actually I've come across a MacKenzie spine therapist in my area. Turns out a teaching colleague goes there. I'll give them a ring.

Not back on the mat, sadly. I was doing capoeira and TKD and I suspect the cartwheels weren't helping. I'm also wondering if the whipping of the head around in the TKD (spinning kicks) is aggravating it.

I'll chat with the coach, he's Polish Olympic sports psychologist so he might have some suggestions...
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#325006 - 03/26/07 10:36 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
Good luck with the therapy.
But since I noticed so many people with this problem I thought I would start the ball rolling with mentioning 3 exercises specific for rotator cuff strengthening that would benefit ALL of us if not just for preventative measures… There are a ton of exercises for the rotator cuff, but these three are the “standard” ones and essential for either prevention or rehabilitation… I ask other people who have had experience to add their favorite exercise for everyone else’s benefits… However, please note that rotator cuff tears can be due to trauma and regardless of how strong you are it will still tear (you may just be better off because of strengthening). Also note that overtraining can cause tendonitis, which is essentially like a tear (so additional strengthening may just aggravate the pain). And lastly, there is something out there called “impingement syndrome” which can come about by any number of factors including scapular weakness (a whole bunch of other exercises)…. So with this in mind I give you the three basics (please bear with me if the pictures don't come out, I'm not computer savvy, you could just "google" the names):

Scaption (note his arms are abducted slightly forward of his body, not purely to the side)

Internal / External Rotation (same movement, just different directions, also note the elbow stays to the side)
_________________________
"There is no right or wrong way, just a better way"... Soke Robert Murphy

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#325007 - 04/03/07 05:56 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
Kimira Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hello

I have chronic problems with both my left and right rotate cuffs. (Left being the worst). Like you I have numbness and tingling in my arms. As well I have problems with the joint separating/dislocating during some movements or when I apply any pressure on it. Do to the fact that there is nothing to stabilize that joint in either shoulder.

I don’t if this will help you. You should see your doctor before you try any home remedies. I also suggest seeing a physical therapist, but if your like me, and you can’t afford that then I can recommend some websites for advice on how to strengthen that joint.

http://familydoctor.org/265.xml
http://www.bodyresults.com/E2RotatorCuff.asp

Good Luck anywhich way you decide.
_________________________
"Following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been." (Tool)

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#325008 - 04/14/07 12:32 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
Sam_Karate Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 3
I've done my rotator cuff, well just recently found out that's what it is. I have been having shoulder pains for over 4 years now (since a car accident). I've been to a chiro, physio, doctor, have taken lots of anti inflamatories, had it ultrasounded and had tonnes of massage work done on it. They all told me that I had torn or overused my trapezius muscle and it just needed rest.

I stopped all sport for an entire year and there was no change. I saw a different chiro and he was the first to say it was my rotator cuff (and also found out a lot of postural alignment problems with an xray). I haven't had any treatment for nearly a month now and it's going good. I used to be able to only go 4-7 days before I was in a lot of pain again after a treatment.

It's still not fully healed because it's been around for so long, but it's getting there and not interferring anywhere near as much with my physical activity anymore.

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#325009 - 04/15/07 11:07 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Sam_Karate]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I've got torn rotator cuffs in both shoulders, and there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that they don't heal... they have differing states of "inflamed" and "normal", and both the chiropractor and anti-inflammatories will help, but keeping your arm and shoulder strength up will help most.

My doctor had to also treat me for tendonitis, because the rotator cuff was irritating the tendon down my arm, so he gave me a shot of cordisone in the middle of my back into the tendon sheath. It fixed the problem immediately, and while I still have torn cuffs, I haven't had any trouble with them for several years... just periodic soreness if I do something extraordinary to them... but don't think they'll ever be well (unless you have the surgery done to clean them up). A tear in the cuff is permanent, and all the surgeons can do is "smoothe them up" a bit.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#325010 - 04/16/07 03:44 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: wristtwister]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Wrist, rotator cuffs (supra and infra spinatus) are muscles like any other and do heal if the tear is in the muscle tissue. The trouble comes in if as they heal, they are not mobilised and stretched. You actually have to work them lightly as they heal to prevent a build up of scar tissue in the muscle. this scar tissue is fibrous and does not have as much elasticity as regular muscle fibres, and so its existence makes re-injury far more likely when you return to full activity. This then leads to more scar tissue. Poor rehab of these muscles becomes a very viscious circle.
If the tear is in the tendon, or if the muscle is detached (a complete tear near origin or insertion) then reconstructive surgery is available, and they can be re attached and again, with proper rehab, full function can be restored.

As for the scar tissue, it can be reduced by ultra sound therapy, and painfull mobilisation work which intentionaly re-tears the injury in degrees, and then the new range of mobility is maintained as better quality new healing takes place- a bit like re-breaking a nose to set it straight.
Both these aspects of rectification can only be undertaken by a physiotherapist.

no such thing as an unmendable muscle.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#325011 - 04/16/07 08:47 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Cord]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
Good morning injured ones!

Let me repeat. NUMBNESS AND TINGLING DOES NOT NOT NOT NOT COME FROM YOUR SHOULDER!!!!.... I don’t care what the Chiro or Physio or Physician told you….. It is physiologically impossible for a rotator cuff tear/tendonitis/injury to cause numbness and tingling down your arm…. IT IS YOUR NECK!!!!

Rotator cuff tears cause pain in the shoulder which can radiate down the outside of the arm usually to the deltoid but at its worst to the mid arm… Other injuries to the shoulder include an unstable joint which would cause a weak feeling throughout the arm and maybe numbness and tingling throughout the arm but it is because the arm is about to tear out of its socket and you are straining the entire brachial plexus and blood supply, NOT BECAUSE OF THE ROTATOR CUFF TEAR!... Labral tears are a common thing and just causes joint locking…. But the biggest thing with rotator cuff tears is WEAKNESS!

I have treated thousands of tears, joint instabilities, etc… And I have treated thousands of neck injuries… The most common thing I see is that the patient starts to compensate with the neck whether due to postural or accessory muscles when reaching (upper trapezius connects to the cervical vertebrae)… Usually this causes the numbness and tingling. Correct your neck posture and you usually fix the problem of numbness and tingling (this will not fix the torn rotator cuff).

Reading some of these posts make me want to comment on several things:
1 – There are a ton of poorly trained and skilled medical practitioners out there. So be careful.
2 – There are a ton of people out there who are not medically trained but give out medical advice that is worse than if you did nothing at all… This includes websites!... I have known websites to exist that a 14 y.o. put up claiming to be a doctor… There are no checks and balances on the web. So you are on your own.
3 – Common sense makes all the difference in the world. Sit back and THINK of what is going on. Listen to what is said and the theory behind it. Know what the injured body part is supposed to be doing and why it is not doing it…. If you are doing something and you are worse as a result are you better or worse?.... WORSE!!!... You need to do things that are making you feel better as a result (maybe not while it is done… i.e. mobilization of tissue), but afterwards you should feel the same if not better.
4 – Don’t confuse treatments or have several different things going on at once! Two examples, the first being don’t undergo massage therapy and physical therapy because if you are worse or no better it could be because one of them is doing the opposite of what the other is doing… Second, it was stated “I saw a different chiro and he was the first to say it was my rotator cuff (and also found a lot of postural alignment problems…)”… Well who is to say that treatment of the postural problems didn’t fix the complaints? What fixed the problem?... I can treat you for your neck and tell you we are doing scapular stabilization exercises for the shoulder and you wouldn’t know the difference. You would think that it was the shoulder exercises that helped you.

Torn cuffs will heal depending upon where they are torn and how badly they are torn (including the tendon). There is a blood supply but it is poor (anything with blood supply can heal itself)… I don’t know Cord personally but have seen a few of his posts, after seeing his bio I still don’t know how he knows this stuff but he is 100+% right when stating the troubles in healing the rotator cuff…. I will just comment one statement he had. “Mobilization” of soft tissue (a.k.a. “deep friction massage”) will break up the scar tissue that runs in the opposite direction of where the tissue should be running allowing for full expansion and contraction of tendons and muscles with minimal adhesions to other structures/tendons, and while allowing the new scar tissue to replace the tissue that was torn in the proper manner/direction.

Lastly, it depends upon where you live as to who you can see about this problem. I am personally biased as I am a Physical Therapist… You now knowing this can take what you will out of the above and below. However, where I live, Chiropractors CANNOT treat anything but the spine. They limited it in their practice act and are stuck with what they have. If they do treat an extremity and the patient gets injured, both the Chiropractor and Chiropractic board can get sued for failure of the Chiropractor to practice within their scope of practice and the board knowing the Chiros in their area do this on a daily basis and does not do anything about it… But Chiro’s can be a huge help if they studied this problem extensively (not a weekend course in the Bahamas)…. Just know that the joint cannot be “popped” back in as the rotator cuff’s function is to stabilize the joint. Popping the joint adds to instability and it does nothing to the tendons than to irritate them (possibly further tearing them).

Brother Carl
_________________________
"There is no right or wrong way, just a better way"... Soke Robert Murphy

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#325012 - 04/16/07 04:03 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: wiggy]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Hi Wiggy, thanks for all the info, you and everyone.

I think I mentioned the doc put me on anti-inflams. Well it seemed to clear up and then I developed a pain in my neck (didn't help things showing the kids in the theatre group how to do a neck bridge). Well, that too had almost disappeared when Good friday came and while shaving I got a searing pain right across my back and shoulders. Spent a loads of the weekend resting up but still have a lingering pain in my right shoulder, about 3 inches from the spine (pain also seems to go through to the front!).

Weird. Phoned the doc and he just said to go down to the local casualty for an x-ray cos he's too busy. (haven't had a lotof faith in this guy since he diagnosed a torn achilles tendon without getting me to take my high-leg boots off... and he was wrong!).

New doctor needed, I think.

One question tho', I often relax by lying on the floor to stretch the spine a bit. When I do I feel the vertebraes (I think) click (especially if I have a rolled up towel under me). I can sometimes crack them like some people crack knuckles. I imagine this isn't a good thing? Am I right?
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#325013 - 04/16/07 05:42 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
Hi Trevek,
Sorry to hear of your problems. I thought you said there was a McKenzie therapist you were going to see... Anyhow, when you say it is a pain that goes to the front, you have to be more specific as to its location start to finish.... To answer your question about the vertebraes cracking: I'm supposed to say that if it doesn't hurt when it occurs then you are fine and not to worry. However, fact is we werent born with joint noises and you should try and eliminate/minimize the problem as best as possible. It is just a sign of arthritis, joint instability, tendons popping over each other, cavitation, etc.... any one of the above just means that it is not perfect.... X-rays won't show much. MRI won't show much.... If you are doing better than maybe you should just leave it alone and return to the MA after a week or two of pain-free activities. This way you will allow you body to have "healed" it... Otherwise go see your physio.

Good Luck,
Carl
_________________________
"There is no right or wrong way, just a better way"... Soke Robert Murphy

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#325014 - 04/16/07 06:08 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: wiggy]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

I don’t know Cord personally but have seen a few of his posts, after seeing his bio I still don’t know how he knows this stuff but he is 100+% right when stating the troubles in healing the rotator cuff…




Just to clarify Wiggy, i was a fitness instructor and personal trainer for 10 years, but my principle qualification is in sports therapy. I specialised in rehabilitation (including post op cardiac work), and was part of the GP referal scheme in the UK, I was also sports physio for a minor pro soccer team for a couple of seasons.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#325015 - 04/16/07 07:40 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Cord]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
Cord,

That explains a whole heck of a lot!

Carl
_________________________
"There is no right or wrong way, just a better way"... Soke Robert Murphy

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#325016 - 04/16/07 11:55 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Cord]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Cord,
I know all that about the rotator cuffs, i.e. the muscle scenario, but my tears are in the attachments at the tendons... not serious enough to do surgery, which would not give me a "better shoulder" on either side, but create a lot of that scar tissue you mentioned.

My doctor, who is excellent, told me that no matter how much therapy and surgery was done to them, that rotator cuffs with my particular injury never did heal with very much success. I may have assumed from that that rotator cuffs in general didn't heal, and it's good to know that people don't have to go through the years of pain I've had with mine.

I do a lot of "cuff" exercises that are specifically designed to help them be less painful, but the end result is that they just don't hurt quite as much if I keep it up. To be located in the shoulder, they're a real pain in the a$$. When mine were first injured, it took me a year to be able to put on a shirt without help. That's not how you spell fun...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#325017 - 04/17/07 03:22 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: wristtwister]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I hear you Wristtwister, as I have posted myself, I too have been prone to cuff problems over the last 14 years or so, and am currently just geting back to full operation after a recent injury to that very area.
The trouble with tears in the tendon sheath is, as you have discovered, they are very slow to heal, and can throw up some long term problems. With respect to your doctor, some ultrasound therapy (not painfull) or a course of deep tissue massage ( ) could help reduce the severity of the scar tissue and improve your ROM and over time reduce your day to day discomfort. Saying 'nothing will help it' is a strange attitude for a doctor to take, and with respect to GP's, they are not rehab specialists, and a registered sports physio may have some tactics that proved to give you more success. I Just offer it as food for thought.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#325018 - 04/17/07 06:43 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Cord]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Thanks Cord,
I've kind of "learned to live with it" and am careful not to do things to aggravate it (if I can help myself). I think the location of the injury is why he said there wasn't anything that could help, not that cuff injury couldn't be addressed.

My injury came about by someone (who disliked me) throwing me sideways using shihonage. I was standing flat footed when he was describing the technique to someone, and being very compliant to allow him to show it. He suddenly threw me using the "self-defense" method of taking the technique to the side instead of the "training method" tha allowed me to fall smoothly, and everyone in the room heard it tear.

It was supposed to be a "training session", but instead, he had me standing flat-footed and just took out my shoulder. I found out later that he had told some of his students that "he wished he had a chance to hurt me", and I was unaware of it until too late. The situation existed because in a testing session, I had literally waxed his students in their "judo portion" of their tests, and it made his judo skills suspect.

The other one was torn as a result of "favoring" the one that was injured, and taking too many throws on that side to compensate for the injury to the other one. In effect, he managed to tear up both my shoulders, because he took out my left side and forced all the issues to the other side.

Just goes to show that you never know what's in somebody's mind...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#325019 - 04/17/07 07:43 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: wristtwister]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
Wrist,
Cord is right with the friction massage. However, if the massage doesn't work because it is too close to the bone then a technique called "needling" would work. Needling is done only by a physician.... It essentially "sparks up" an new inflammatory stage to start the healing again... You just stick with a physio afterwards so as to prevent scar tissue forming in the wrong direction.
Carl
_________________________
"There is no right or wrong way, just a better way"... Soke Robert Murphy

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#325020 - 04/17/07 09:35 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: wristtwister]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

I've kind of "learned to live with it" and am careful not to do things to aggravate it (if I can help myself).




Don't I hear you. Torn rotator cuff twice myself and also some neck injuries, compounded by other body injuries. The human body and especially the mind is a wonder. We learn to live with pains to a point that they don't bother us too much but my fear is what will it be like when I'm older?

Take care and speedy recovery.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#325021 - 04/17/07 03:03 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Dereck]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Dereck,
I say this smiling, but it's true... other than having torn rotator cuffs, a bad neck, a bad back, tendonitis, bad hips, and a consumate loss of flexibility, I'm doing great.

I think my earlobes are the only things on my body that aren't injured...

"You just gotta suck it up and come back next week"...Billy Kilmer, Washington Redskins quarterback when he was getting killed every week as the New Orleans Saints quarterback.

... is there a chance I could get traded???

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#325022 - 04/20/07 03:51 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: wiggy]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Hi Wiggy,

finally got to see the therapist and she diagnosed two points of problem with the spine and neck. She's started me on the old chin tucks and stretches for now.

She hmmmed a bit when I mentioned TKD (she used to do it) but was ok with the Tai Chi. I think maybe I should put the dobok away for a while and just concentrate on the TC.

Thanks for info, BTW.


Edited by trevek (04/20/07 03:52 AM)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#325023 - 04/20/07 03:39 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
wiggy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts
Hey Trevek,
Congratulations on finaly being diagnosed with neck problems (I guess that is a good thing )
Just make sure you are no worse as a result and that you continue to make progress compared to the two weeks prior.
Carl
_________________________
"There is no right or wrong way, just a better way"... Soke Robert Murphy

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#325024 - 04/20/07 04:01 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Sorry to hear that Trevek. I wish I had your conviction to do that but I'm still plodding along. I too have suffer similar injuries with of course the rotator cuff twice being injured but over a year ago crushing my C6 and C7 vertebrae (verified with a MRI) that created havoc on my body. I took a break for 3 months from this and slowly got back into TKD/BJJ and even competed injured and as soon as my surgeon gives me the okay for my knee, then I will continue to do so.

The thing is with injuries is you don't necessarily have to quit the things you like. You have to be smart and adapt to what you can and can't do and when you are sore you stop and if need be take a break. The body is an amazing machine and as it gets older it still can do lots of things even when not running at 100%, but it still needs regular maintenance and a tune up to stay functional. It may never win the race but you can always try, or at least show up and be the pace car.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#325025 - 04/21/07 05:21 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Dereck]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Hi guys,

I think the thing is that I'm now old enough to accept it is not a sign of weakness to accept that at 41 there are a few little problems which were ignoreable at 25 and 30 but which now need to be considered.I've noticed more little injuries than I did a few years ago.

As to giving up the TKD, it isn't so much of a problem as the past 7 years I've only trained sporadically and it probably causes more problems returning to it than if I had been doing it continually. The other thing is that recently the training I was doing was with a WTF club with a lot more emphasis on spinning kicks etc, which obviously aggravate my neck a bit more. Being a Chang Hon TKD guy originally I found it easier to do things in a more back-friendly way for me, with regards sparring etc.

Perhaps after a few months I can go back to it. The coach is the Polish Olympic squad trainer and Olympic team psychologist (for the whole Olympic squad, not just TKD)so he might be able to advise me about the best thing to do.

The Chen Tai Chi which I'm doing is an MA, not just new age yoga. It just takes some getting used to after something dynamic, like the TKD and Capoiera.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#325026 - 04/21/07 01:08 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: trevek]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Trevek, what ever you do ... do it to its fullest and enjoy. Take care of yourself and I wish you well.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#325027 - 04/21/07 06:37 PM Re: rotator cuff [Re: Dereck]
catsonic Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 1
Loc: lincs uk
Hi all. I've joined this website and feel abit of a fraud!! (i dont do fighting!! )

I've joined just to ask a few questions on my problem! I've got a rotator cuff injury too! I've been of 3 weeks now. The first week the doc said it was a problem with the big mustle in my back and i had to rest my arm totally. he gave me a week of work and said if its no better to come back, by the next week it felt even worse.

Went back and saw a differnt doc and he told me off for not using shoulder and said it was rotator cuff injury! He gave me another 2 weeks off and some exercises to do and some waffy tablets.

I've been doing the exercises and yes some things are feeling better but i still have alot of pain when i lift, pull or push anything. but as long as i dont do them its fine.

Thing is my sick note runs out on wednesday. because my arm feels mostly fine as long as i dont do these things im worried that the doc will say im fine to goto work. thing is my job invlolves lifting and moving my arm is all the directions that hurts it!

i feel guilty staying at home when most of the time in everyyday use my arm isnt too bad! (as long as i dont do the stupid exercises) lol i am doing them though even though my arm really really hurts afterwards!

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#325028 - 04/22/07 01:18 AM Re: rotator cuff [Re: catsonic]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
If the activity you have to do at work will hurt your shoulder, you need to tell your doc and get another sick note. if you go back to work you will just re-injure it. Keep doing your rehab, and with another week or so of rest and specific recovery, you may feel fit for work.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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