FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 21 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Bartfast, ZapEm, AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc
22906 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 10
AndyLA 5
cxt 3
futsaowingchun 3
ergees 2
August
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
New Topics
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
Yesterday at 05:22 AM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Recent Posts
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
Yesterday at 05:22 AM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by VDJ
08/15/14 05:46 PM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
The Karate punch
by Dobbersky
08/12/14 05:14 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Dobbersky
08/11/14 05:03 AM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
A post for those who might become martial artists.
by AndyLA
08/06/14 07:25 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
Forum Stats
22906 Members
36 Forums
35570 Topics
432472 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Topic Options
#324602 - 02/24/07 11:40 AM Tech thread part 3 - hip movement and timing
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I got to thinking about this from watching some of the 'members in action' vids here on the site. We all know that hip movement is important for power generation in strikes. But how important is it relative to some of the other factors, like 'dropping' your weight, overall joint alignment or 'launching' into a strike? My stand up training did not really emphasize hip motion over anything else, but it was taken into consideration.

The other thing is, what do you consider to be the most effective timing for hip movement? Should hip movement precede the striking implement (ie; hand, foot, elbow, etc)? Should they move as a unit? Does the striking implement move before the hip does? Does (should?) using a weapon change hip timing or other integration?
relative importance?
Multiple choices allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/24/07 11:38 AM
View the results of this poll.
timing?
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/24/07 11:38 AM
View the results of this poll.
Does having a weapon change timing or integration?
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/24/07 11:38 AM
View the results of this poll.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#324603 - 02/24/07 12:30 PM Re: Tech thread part 3 - hip movement and timing [Re: MattJ]
jonnyboxcutter Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 320
Wow, you’re into the granular basics…
Of the three – Hip torque, Body Weight Transfer, and Joint Alignment I would call them equal it’s just learning to use them together and at the same time is a bit tricky.

Timing – Everything starts and stops at the same time.

Does the timing change – I think at this level if it needed to change it would be ineffective, this is just basic power generation.

Just my .02
-JBC-
_________________________
-- -JBC-

Top
#324604 - 02/24/07 12:33 PM Re: Tech thread part 3 - hip movement and timing [Re: MattJ]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I like the tech threads so far. keep em coming.

First, hip movement should always procede the striking weapon. Think of striking as popping a whip, or towel, or ball and chain. The movement starts at one end and explodes outward. If you threw the ball first, what good would it do to push the chain behind it?

How important is hip movement relative to other factors? Well, how important is power and speed to your training?
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#324605 - 02/24/07 03:18 PM Re: Tech thread part 3 - hip movement and timing [Re: Chen Zen]
Jeff_G Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 222
Loc: Midwest
"Lead with your belt" is a phrase I would use many times. It helps with that transfer of power as well as keeping down telegraphing.
I had some white belts doing some simple front thrust kicks against the bag. One in particular was having the bag knock her back when she hit it. When I told her to lead with her belt, in fact drive the belt foreward first, she knocked the person holding the bag backwards.

Top
#324606 - 02/24/07 03:53 PM Re: Tech thread part 3 - hip movement and timing [Re: MattJ]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
I think there is a confusion here about the difference between hip torque and weight transfer. Surely the hip torque is a method of effectively transfering your body weight into a strike, as is sinking down as you punch and having a strong stance. The hip torque makes the whole body accelerate into the target meaning that the greater the hip torque the more acceleration and weight a punch will have.

The second question: I think the two should happen at the same time, because, as I said above, it will increase the acceleration of the limb towards the target and therefore increase power.

I'll leave the third question to those who have trained with weapons, I have never done so.

Top
#324607 - 02/24/07 06:47 PM Re: Tech thread part 3 - hip movement and timing [Re: Supremor]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I think I see what you are getting at, Supremor. But I do count hip torque as something seperate from "weight transfer", because I am considering weight transfer of the entire body. Because hip torque does not directly involve the legs like weight dropping, or stepping into the target.

But do I concede that hip torque could be considered a form of weight transfer. Now quit making me look stupid, Poindexter. J/K
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#324608 - 02/24/07 11:31 PM Re: Tech thread part 3 - hip movement and timing [Re: MattJ]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
hip tourque with proper timing and weight transfer produces incredible amount of power....but only at full range. for ranges closer up, a different power generation needs to be employed from spinal rotation and leverage. The reason for that is, time...you simply don't have enough time to pull off hip tourque at very close range.

Top
#324609 - 02/25/07 08:47 AM Re: Tech thread part 3 - hip movement and timing [Re: Ed_Morris]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Whilst all three of the elements of power generation are essential, weight transfer produces the most force. Without your bodyweight behind a strike, there is little chance it will have any effect. That said, no strike is effective without all three.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

Top
#324610 - 02/25/07 08:49 AM Re: Tech thread part 3 - hip movement and timing [Re: MattJ]
Xibalba Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Lansing, MI, USA
Hi Matt. Interesting technique threads you have going here.


I think that the timing of hips/striking implement varies given the technique. However, with most techniques I find that the best power generation comes from the striking surface slightly preceding the forward drive of the hips, with the hips and the striking surface landing in synchronicity at the moment of impact. For example, when we teach a basic straight line reverse punch, we tell our students to think about firing the punching hand in a straight line toward the target first, with the hips following via a drive off the back leg. The hip and the knuckles should then both be driving into the target together at the moment of impact.

I find that this method works well for me. IMHO, if one fires the hips first (at least with most techniques), and the implement after, the connection between the hips and the striking implement is broken. That is, with the reverse punch example, the hips would arrive first, and then the knuckle, resulting in a punch that was "whippy", but without much bodyweight behind it. What one wants is a reverse punch that is rooted into the ground and "felt" from the back foot, which is facilitated by the forward drive of the hip in conjunction with the impact of the knuckle - not the hip arriving first with the knuckle to follow.

Does this post make sense? Words so often fail me when describing technique - we all really ought to train together to best swap ideas. Besides, I am hopped up on cold medicine today, and the fog in my head may keep me from posting clearly .

Peace,
Mike

Top
#324611 - 02/25/07 09:10 AM Re: Tech thread part 3 - hip movement and timing [Re: Leo_E_49]
Tom2199 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 834
Loc: England
Quote:

Whilst all three of the elements of power generation are essential, weight transfer produces the most force. Without your bodyweight behind a strike, there is little chance it will have any effect. That said, no strike is effective without all three.


_________________________
Vet

Top






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga