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#324561 - 02/24/07 11:03 AM Tech thread part 2 - hand position
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Where do you all feel is best placement for hands in a combat scenario? Do you feel different hand positions are warranted for a 'street fight' as opposed to sparring? Does your head movement change where you place your hands - or vice-versa? Do you use 'faking' or other intentionally bad position?

Vote and explain.
hand position different for street or sparring
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/24/07 11:02 AM
View the results of this poll.
placement?
Multiple choices allowed


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Does head movement change hand position
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/24/07 11:02 AM
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Do you use faking?
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#324562 - 02/24/07 11:07 AM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: MattJ]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Hands held high to facilitate faster jabs or grabs, head movement will shift my hands to protect my face if I slip, bob and weave.

And my guard is always the same, sparring or street.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#324563 - 02/24/07 11:27 AM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: MattJ]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
i try to keep my hands as a mirror image im my opponents, if he has one high and one low then so do i, mostly as a defensive measure to help cut off his options. thats when were i close.

farther away, i like to fake alot and dance around talking the smack is it were. i watched ali one time and it stuck. my feeling is that when theres distance, play with it, and when theres non to spare its all business. but its still fun to talk to the guy your about to arm bar in a grapel, lol, its bad manors for judo but some times its just fun to warn him about the left arm bar then jump on the right....its a clasic and it works, im sorry....

my guard is different is sparing as it is in street fight, i don't have one in a street fight, this sounds like suicide i know bt in a street fight i keep my hands down and talk trash to the guy till he steps in on me, and i work from the openings the guy gives me. they always give me openings when there mad and they think there gonna sucker punch you. its not a smart tactic and i don't recomend anyone ever use it, but i like it for some reason. and it works for me. at least so far. and if i feel any threat at all from the guy or his friends i'd rather not risk a knife being pulled or worst. but it is satisfying to see someone frustrated that he can't hit you.

yours in life
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#324564 - 02/24/07 12:23 PM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: MattJ]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Lots of questions as of late. Your video didnt make you self concious did it?

I think the bet placement is one in, one out about chin height. Strong hand lead. I think whatever position you choose for the "street" is the same one you should be sparring and training with. Would be rather productive not to train it, or to train something you arent going to use.

Im surprised im the only one who voted this way. Your head movement should NOT change your hand position in a striking application. Lets say you move your head down, if your head drops down with it, you will still leave your head or face vulnerable and if they go up, you leave your torso weak.

And finally, yes I do use feints. I may fake an attack to open my opponent up. I may feint weakness, or bad positioning to draw them in. I may conceal my speed, or make them think Im scared. It all deends on what your working with, but you MUST SELL the fake. If the first time you set the fake and it isnt convincing, it probably wont work from that point on.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#324565 - 02/24/07 12:51 PM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: Chen Zen]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
My hands doesn't move down or up.

For example if I throw the cross, my rear shoulder will move forward and offer protection to the face, my lead hand will contract back to cover the upper part, all while my head tilt to the opposite side to avoid any incoming jabs. A beautiful cross, I can say.

Basically, if one hand goes out, my head will tilt a little and my other hand will protect it as it tilts or moves. But I NEVER move it down or up to expose only sideway movement of the hands.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#324566 - 02/24/07 04:04 PM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: MattJ]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
I spar with a high tight guard, so I can't see myself wanting to change in a street encounter. I like the close guard defensively, and I think it offers a lot of options offensively, although it is slightly worse for quick jabs. I try to keep my head tucked in, so it doesn't change it's movement much, so my hands are always in the same place to protect it.

Faking, I don't personally like to "draw" my opponent in, I find it too risky for me. Personally if I got into a difficult encounter, I want to make myself seem very confident of beating the attacker, so that hopefully he would have think twice and maybe back off, or otherwise back off after a coupe of punches, giving me time to escape.

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#324567 - 02/24/07 04:25 PM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: Supremor]
Umbra_777 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 148
I generaly do a high tight guard, although I'm still working on remembering to keep it up, especialy when I kick. I'm probably going to try to losen it up just a bit so I can get some more speed.

Something that several people in my TKD class do when sparring is keep one hand up guarding the face (I think usually the back hand) and the other down low guarding the body and groin. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this?

-Umbra

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#324568 - 02/25/07 03:59 AM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: Umbra_777]
steelwater Offline
On the Ansatsuken installment-plan

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 222
Umbra:
Yes, that is probably the same fighting stance I use.
_________________________
Memoirs of a Karateka

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#324569 - 02/25/07 08:45 AM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: steelwater]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Self defensive guard for me is further out. This is in case someone pulls a weapon. You'll have less time to intercept a weapon if you've got your arms right next to you. It's only a precaution though, as long as your hands are up, you'll be in the best position to defend yourself.
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#324570 - 02/25/07 10:39 AM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: MattJ]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
by 'street fight' you mean a bar alley brawl where you are being challenged by a guy for looking at his girlfriend? in that case, it's first a boxing (closed fist) and soon wrestling (open hand) match - the objective is to 'better' your opponent to 'save face'. The motivator is ego. The intent is to win without going to jail for murder or get sued paying someone's medical bills....but stuff happens, which is why it's wise to avoid showdowns.

There are other types of defense a rung lower level than the 'street fight' - plan on being hit first from a blind side when you don't expect it (as oppossed to 'squaring off'). if still concious but stunned, you can cover-up and hope for the best. or if your initial reflex was just enough to make the initial attack a glancing blow, a response should be something hard, fast and cruel....which open hand is best suited. If it goes beyond that one-shot 0.1 second of opportunity to gain advantage (or at least even the advantage), then the one with a mixed combination of the best strength,stamina,luck and training gets to walk away....and size very much matters....also if there is a weapon involved then luck plays a larger part.

anyone practice getting blind-sided? no time to close fists. try this: throw a dodge ball at someone who doesn't expect it - if they react in time they either try to catch it, evade it, cover up, swat it away or a mix....with an open hand. none of the time will someone not expecting it, close a fist and punch the ball away using hip tourque. why? not enough time. reflex is open hand and non-linear.

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