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#324571 - 02/25/07 03:38 PM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: MattJ]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
All of my training has been in class and I've never had the opportunity of a street fight since; and hope I never do. So I have to assume how I train is how I will fight in a real life altercation. However when free sparring with stand-up to takedown, I fight like I said, how I was trained.
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#324572 - 02/25/07 04:42 PM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: Dereck]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
If your sparring is as it should be, your hand position and everything else will be exactly as you'd use it on the street. Only minor adjustments are needed when moving from gloves to bare knuckles.


-John

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#324573 - 02/25/07 06:21 PM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
What if the attacker has a knife?
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#324574 - 02/25/07 10:17 PM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: MattJ]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Shouldnt affect your position, only strategy.
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#324575 - 02/26/07 01:36 AM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: MattJ]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Where did The Greatest put his hands?

And where did the loser put his hands?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD99VbFzqAg

As Mohd Ali was my hero back when I did school boy boxing, I copied his style and found that if you put your hands where he did, hanging around the waist area, you have a full complete view of your opponent and all you need to get out of the way of a jab or swing is to just tilt your head back a couple of inches and the jab or swing will miss by a mile; whereas if you hold the recommended way of covering your face, you not only do not have a full view, but to get out of the way you needed to pull your whole upper body back. Not only is this slow, it does not allow a quick counter from you and some opportunistic openings of your opponent's defences are also blocked by your own hands. Also it is a little less trying in a long bout.


Edited by ButterflyPalm (02/26/07 01:59 AM)
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#324576 - 02/26/07 07:49 AM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: MattJ]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
MattJ wrote:

Quote:

What if the attacker has a knife?




Well, there are variable factors at work here I think it's safe to say.

The simple answer is, run like hell. I mean, if I have time to see that my opponent is brandishing a knife, that would be a valid option. Otherwise, I'd rather have my arm cut than my neck anyway.

Its my opinion that many people will attack the body with a knife. But again, if you can SEE the knife, run like hell.

If you didn't see the knife, it's IN you already. Then if you have a clinch game, you respond accordingly.


Butterflypalm wrote:
Quote:

Where did The Greatest put his hands?

And where did the loser put his hands?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD99VbFzqAg






The thing about that is, Ali was "The Greatest". The loser wasn't, lol.

Are your attributes as good as Muhammad Ali's? I mean, if you're as good a fighter as Ali was, you can put your hands ANYWHERE -- even behind your back, lol.

Unfortunately, most of us aren't blessed with Ali's talent or attributes. Keeping my arms down around my waist would be the VERY LAST thing that I'd encourage anyone to do.

Quote:


As Mohd Ali was my hero back when I did school boy boxing, I copied his style and found that if you put your hands where he did, hanging around the waist area, you have a full complete view of your opponent




Unless you’re always the best fighter in a fight, I wouldn’t recommend that. To my friends I wouldn’t.



Quote:


and all you need to get out of the way of a jab or swing is to just tilt your head back a couple of inches and the jab or swing will miss by a mile; whereas if you hold the recommended way of covering your face, you not only do not have a full view, but to get out of the way you needed to pull your whole upper body back.




Disagree. That’s why you have slipping and ducking. If your opponent has a superior reach, tilting back a few inches won’t cut it once he recognizes your timing and rhythm.


Quote:


Not only is this slow, it does not allow a quick counter from you and some opportunistic openings of your opponent's defences are also blocked by your own hands. Also it is a little less trying in a long bout.





I can’t disagree more. This is probably not bad if you’re Prince Naseem or someone and like him, all of your opponents are tomato cans.

But really, to advocate holding your arms around your waist isn't something I'd want my students to do. It isn't even something I'd want to recommend on public forum. Some guys may be inexperienced enough to actually try that and end up KTFO'd.


-John

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#324577 - 02/26/07 08:35 AM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Where did The Greatest put his hands?




in a boxing environment, a pro fighter does their homework and learns/watches their upcoming oponent. This means that when they step in the ring the oponent is (as far as is possible) a known quantity. Ali used different attributes at different times- against Foreman, for example, he knew if his chin got caught the fight was over, and he had his hands up plenty in that fight.

Hands down has been tried by many boxers- Naseem Hamed, Curtland Lang, even Audley Harrison insisted on a horrible low slung left hand. They have all been caught out in this game of roulette, as was Ali- hardly a stranger to the canvas himself.

A good traditional guard should be where everyone begins. From there it may change as your experience and attributes become apparent, but if in doubt, chin down and hands up is your best bet IMO.
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#324578 - 02/26/07 11:19 AM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: ButterflyPalm]
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Quote:

Where did The Greatest put his hands?

And where did the loser put his hands?






While he may be a great example to follow, remember that he was a boxer. That does not equate to anything else.

Don't get me wrong, boxings great, but if he and his opponent didn't have gloves on, many of the tactics he used wouldn't be the best.
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#324579 - 02/26/07 11:47 AM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: ButterflyPalm]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Butterflypalm -

Quote:

found that if you put your hands where he did, hanging around the waist area, you have a full complete view of your opponent and all you need to get out of the way of a jab or swing is to just tilt your head back a couple of inches and the jab or swing will miss by a mile; whereas if you hold the recommended way of covering your face, you not only do not have a full view, but to get out of the way you needed to pull your whole upper body back.




I have noticed something like this as well, and this is actually what prompted the third poll question of this thread. Has anyone else noticed that keeping a high guard restricts head/upper body movement somewhat? I feel increased tension in my neck from having to keep the guard up, which makes it harder to keep the head and shoulders mobile.

That said, I agree with JKogas and the others that high guard is generally more reliable, and thus preferable.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#324580 - 02/26/07 01:33 PM Re: Tech thread part 2 - hand position [Re: MattJ]
AndrewGreen Offline
shadow-lurker

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 170
Hand positioning, like everything else, is not a one size fits all deal.

What's the other guy likely to try and do to me? Is he going to try and take me down? Is he going to try and kick me in the head, Is he going to try and clinch?

Who's the better striker? Do I want to encourage him to try and hit me because I know I can win standing? Do I want to get him to try and swing so I can shoot for a takedown? Do I want to try and drive straight through his punches and force a clinch? Keep him at a distance with Jabs and leg kicks?

Fighting is largely a game of strategy, and having only one strategy won't get you far in games of strategy. Would be like playing chess and only having one attack strategy.

Posturing dictates your options, and the other guys. You need to give yourself the options you want, and take away the ones he wants. Make him fight your game.

That said, I lean towards the Crane stance from Karate Kid
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