Well, my problem is like all newbies: have to see it first. Your video leaves me clueless...another old guy with a baggy shirt. For all I know his students are faking it...because video is a poor medium and doesn't capture it.

Shimada at least gets the mental gears working in a certain direction.

And my point is, even if you DO see it, what CAN you REALLY see? IF it's happening *internally*... HOW can you??? Noob or otherwise....???

Hence my point... regarding asking the teacher... this stuff has to be FELT. Seeing is one thing. Feeling it done to you is another.

And, no, I don't think his students are faking it.

Toumei na Chikara... or what the Chinese IMA calls 'hidden power' (an jing), except this dude is at the next level up of what's called 'mysterious power' (hua jing).

Shimada...?? I would call that 'obvious power' (ming jing)... the *lowest* level of what I'm talking about...

But I guess we all gotta start *somewhere*....

sorry, not buying the video eyrie. I know I'm over-critical, but you gotta be brain-dead (or brain-washed) to watch that with a believing eye that it wasn't exagurated on the uke's part. respect is a powerful thing. they showed respect by over-reacting to satisfy what the old man was showing is effective. maybe not scripted, but over-dramatized...and they probably would have reacted the same way without knowing there was a camera.

How do I know? I don't. opinions are wonderful things aren't they

There are two separate things going on: what people believe is possible and what is actually possible.

I have no interest (other than intellectually) in what people believe is possible. people can do incredible things when they believe something....question is, will it work on the non-vested attacker that doesn't believe in it?

Probably both Ed... brain dead AND brainwashed... OR maybe you need to examine YOUR own beliefs and perceptions about your preconceived notions of "effectiveness", physical limitations... and perhaps contemplate what true human potential could entail.

Perhaps, lots of things defy explanation, and many people believed certain things were improbable and impossible... like... flying (from da Vinci to the Wrights), much less flying to the moon, or that the Earth is not flat and revolves around the Sun.

But hey, whether you believe or don't believe is up to you.... and better if you don't. If you are happy with whatever level of accomplishment you're at, then more power to you.

Me? At least I have something higher to aim for... and if I miss, well so what?

BTW, have you gone to see Dan yet???? Or maybe you're just happy not venturing out of your own comfortable little box?

It would be too easy to counter those attempted jabs....but who wants to make it personal?

my own fault. you'd think I'd learn that when topics go over people's heads (including and especially mine) it leads to trading less and less subtle digs....probably due to the evasive and interpretive nature of the subject.

but whats this verbal sparring say about each other's understanding of Ki? I'll let YOU figure it out.

I stand with my original interpretation for the thread-bearer: Ki is the manipulation of momentum and force vectors - thats all you need to know...the rest is feeling it. That study is subtle and deep enough for me. sorry if thats not etherial enough to reach the stratosphere of understanding humans are potentially capable of - but theres my down-to-earth contribution on practical Ki....the rest, I believe, is psychology.

btw, to the original question...just in case: 'honing in of ki' is not tapping into some energy source circulating in the body - it's training the efficiency of manipulating your own and your opponent's momentum and force vectors. (I say 'force vector' to distinguish it from the misinterpreted 'force' term). My opinion only: ignore the term Ki and just practice efficient movement.

No Ed, it's not personal... I'm merely suggesting that there are different "levels" of ability to manipulate forces... take it anyway you want. Open mind or closed mind... I don't really care... I think it was de Bono, not sure... minds are like parachutes.... works better opened.

true...but at the end of the day, the hardest and/or first to hit wins.

That depends on the purpose of training doesn't it?

It's a whole different way of moving. Yes, it has certain limitations, but then muscular strength is also limited.... as you get older. One of the side benefits of this type of training is that you can hit harder and take harder hits. Another is getting "stronger" as you get older...

I say "side benefits" because my primary purpose for training is not fighting, but to preserve life...

But hey, if you think you can hit faster and harder at your level of comfort, more power to you.

nah...I plan on just lifting weights into my 90's from the safety of my box. lol