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#323257 - 03/04/07 10:50 PM Re: High level skill [Re: Kempoman]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
Quote:

David, is a magician not a IMA practictioner. They would be performing a magic trick.



could not an IMA practictioner ALSO be a magician? isn't that one of your listed hobbies in your profile?

Quote:

I was struck on the arm
during a demonstration by Dr. Hampton and passed out from the impact and spent the next couple of hours puking my guts up and rubbing jow on my arm.
This was from a simple slow movement 'parting wild horses mane'.




weirdest thing...I also threw-up after reading this:

Quote:

I can launch you across the room with the smallest of movements, split a coconut with a slap, stand firm in place while you try to shoulder tackle me and bounce off like a basketball.




anyone here from Tejas looking for a field trip? have you ever visited bullshido.com and made these claims kempoman? now THAT would be something.


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#323258 - 03/04/07 11:16 PM Re: High level skill [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Tone... it's all in the tone....

Tell me, if one can do these things in a training environment, or at a fraction of one's full power, what makes you think it can't be applied in any other venue, or under pressure? And would it even be necessary to do so? What would be the point?

I've seen some of these things done... I've had some of these things done to me (except for the coconut bit). Trust me... you don't want someone with such skills to hit you.... much less at full power. You have to be braindead to want to even think about trying.

If anything, this type of training makes you extremely sensitive to force, so much so, that a simple handshake is sufficient for you to determine if the person's skill level is better than yours or not...

That said, some of us still have a long way to go.... to even contemplate the level of skill Kempoman is talking about at HIS level....

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#323259 - 03/05/07 12:00 AM Re: High level skull [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
was my tone off color again? damn..I was trying so hard to keep that in check. I'll try harder.

just to make sure, I need to ask...kempoman: can you impact a hanging heavy bag with equal visible power using that same minimal movement which sends someone across the room? yes or no will do. thanks, man.


(btw eyrie, the coconut trick is easy )

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#323260 - 03/05/07 12:05 AM Re: High level skull [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Great... I've got a bunch of GREEN coconuts here for you to crack open... WITH the husk still on...

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#323261 - 03/05/07 12:14 AM Re: High level skull [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
lol...I only did the brown ones ...not too many coconut trees around here. Can you crack open a green one?

I thought we agreed there were no isolated tests for this kind of power generation? what happened?

are we back to "if I can smash a coconut, and you can't...." - what argument does that settle?


and since 'smashing coconuts' was listed among the feats by kempoman to illustrate his own level of IMA understanding...thats a force directed onto an inanimate object. one would suppose force upon other inanimate objects can be tested for equal level of understanding.

breaking a coconut.
6" punch thru 3 boards.
throwing a baseball.
etc
etc..

but you agreed internal energy is intrinsic to utilizing another's body mechanics against them. now you are drifting back to it also being externally testable in isolation. which is it?



Top
#323262 - 03/05/07 12:49 AM Re: High level skill [Re: Ed_Morris]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

David, is a magician not a IMA practictioner. They would be performing a magic trick.
could not an IMA practictioner ALSO be a magician? isn't that one of your listed hobbies in your profile?




Yes,but David is not an IMA practicioner.


Quote:

anyone here from Tejas looking for a field trip?




Right, too much of a puss to come to Texas yourself then. Noted.


Quote:

have you ever visited bullshido.com and made these claims kempoman? now THAT would be something.




I have had several discussions with Phrost. Have been invited to a McThrowdown and declined the offer.

--KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

Top
#323263 - 03/05/07 12:53 AM Re: High level skull [Re: Ed_Morris]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:


and since 'smashing coconuts' was listed among the feats by kempoman to illustrate his own level of IMA understanding...thats a force directed onto an inanimate object. one would suppose force upon other inanimate objects can be tested for equal level of understanding.

breaking a coconut.
6" punch thru 3 boards.
throwing a baseball.
etc
etc..

but you agreed internal energy is intrinsic to utilizing another's body mechanics against them. now you are drifting back to it also being externally testable in isolation. which is it?




I have gone zero-inch through two 1" boards and three inches through three. Have seen Rick Moneymaker make it through four.

IMA is about both using the entire body in a specific manner to genrate whole-body power and using the opponents motion as well. Yang/Yin and many combinations inbetween.

Quote:








Yes, you are.

--KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

Top
#323264 - 03/05/07 01:37 AM Re: High level skull [Re: Kempoman]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
lol... I see, you don't react well to logical arguments. bullying doesn't work with me. keep your emotions in check. the bullshido comment was humor - although me deciding not coming to see you and you deciding not going out to see phrost is different how?


it's not your skill thats in question, I'm not qualified to make that assessment, nor am I willing to invest in a trip to Texas for you to beat me over the head with my comedy club.

everyone's words here have to stand on their own merit....otherwise, whats the point of a forum? advertisement space of claims?

maybe you didn't read a couple pages back in the thread, but the understanding was that Ki/Chi/Qi could not be isolate tested against an inanimate object.

now you are saying it can. my simple question is, if a non-IMAist can demonstrate the same things that fall into the category of 'hidden' or 'mysterious' IMA power, then what would that tell us?

Top
#323265 - 03/05/07 08:14 AM Re: Help with Qi/Ki........ [Re: Lucid Warrior]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

I guess I'm just a little surprised that this vid is still a legit topic of discussion, while Steve Rowe's vid (a couple of threads down) hasn't gotten any responses.



Of course the 'old man video' is still a legit topic especially if we are talking about subtle, refined, non-obvious power. Actually I think that there is a great contrast between the two videos.
In the old man video, (even though without question he is receiving some help), we are seeing a demonstration of hidden refined power. With Bossman's clip we see an example of obvious power. Although the uke is being tossed about quite a bit, there is still cooperative demonstration going on.

To keep on your engine metaphor.
Have you ever been in a four wheel drive vehicle and you put it in low gear? You have a great deal of power at your disposal although it doesn't appear that you are moving.

Quote:

Doesn't it still need to be directed through the body's structure to produce an external result (such as sending someone flying backwards)?



Sure if that is the result you are looking for. If you are looking for a big obvious display of power then you will get an obvious result. Non-obvious/hidden power still produces results however they usually manifest on a more subtle level. This is why I am skeptical about the old man.

Quote:

Without manifesting the power through the structure all the way to the surface external movements, isn't it just like revving an engine without shifting out of neutral?



That right, however, you can make things so connected that when "one part moves all parts move". You can do this to a refined level in where the slightest movement generates big power because everything is moving together. So, even a small non-obvious movement can generate big power.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#323266 - 03/05/07 10:14 AM Re: High level skull [Re: Ed_Morris]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

just to make sure, I need to ask...kempoman: can you impact a hanging heavy bag with equal visible power using that same minimal movement which sends someone across the room? yes or no will do. thanks, man.




Yes, though effect is greater on the human body though because of its reaction system.



Quote:

lol... I see, you don't react well to logical arguments.




Please refer me to the logical part of the argument that I responded incorrectly to.


Quote:

bullying doesn't work with me. keep your emotions in check. the bullshido comment was humor - although me deciding not coming to see you and you deciding not going out to see phrost is different how?




My emotions are in check. The bullshido comment was a challenge. Phrost invited me to come and participate in a McThrowdown to test my xingyiquan skills, but with rules specifcally designed to emphasize grappling and deemphasize anything else.

Being invited to fight is very different from being invited to come test a set of skills.

Phrost extended the former, I extended the latter.




Quote:

it's not your skill thats in question, I'm not qualified to make that assessment, nor am I willing to invest in a trip to Texas for you to beat me over the head with my comedy club.

everyone's words here have to stand on their own merit....otherwise, whats the point of a forum? advertisement space of claims?




There comes a time when words cease to have value, then it is time for action. I tried in vain to explain ground strength over via e-mail to a forum member for a couple of months, when words failed he drove from Dallas for the day to
1) Test my skills

upon finding them valid

2) Learn.

I stood in place for over 1 hour to allow him to repeatedly crash into me at full run from 15 yards away.

It was a good day. Anyone else on the forum is welcome to test the same or any other skill that I may or may not possess. But I won't fight anyone unless forced to.


Quote:

maybe you didn't read a couple pages back in the thread, but the understanding was that Ki/Chi/Qi could not be isolate tested against an inanimate object. Now you are saying it can.




Ki/chi/qi would have no effect on an inanimate object at all. If you are referring to a strike using IMA principles, then you would be mostly correct. You could show the effect of connected-whole-body power, but not complete IMA principles.

That would require input(force to be acted upon) from the uke.



Quote:

my simple question is, if a non-IMAist can demonstrate the same things that fall into the category of 'hidden' or 'mysterious' IMA power, then what would that tell us?




Lets take an example of pushing someone.

Assumptions:
1) Subject A is a IMA'ist
2) Subject B is not
3) Both test subjects are of comparable size and strength and fitness levels.
4) Both subjects are acted upon by the same tester.
5) Tester is of greater physical strength than the test subjects
6) Duration of force is 5 seconds.
7) The push is constant, and from the side (pushing the shoulder with both hands)

Test 1)

Subject assume a postion similar in nature to 'ready' position or wuji.

Subjects are acted upon (pushed) by the tester.

Subject A uses body connection and peng jin to redirect the force into the ground.

Subject B uses physical muscular strength to overcome an opposing force.

IMO you would see the following.

1) Subject A would seem to be relaxed and stable, using peng to redirect the force into the ground.

2) Subject B exerting much more of his own strength to overcome the incoming force, and thereby displaying outward or external attributes thereof.
- Muscular tension
- Local muscluar flexion



Test 2)

Assumptions:
1) Subject A is a IMA'ist
2) Subject B is not
3) Both test subjects are of comparable size and strength and fitness levels.
4) Both subjects are acted upon by the same tester.
5) Tester is of greater physical strength than the test subjects
6) Duration of force is up to 1 minute.
7) The push is constant, and from the side (pushing the shoulder with both hands)


Subjects assume a postion similar in nature to 'ready' position or wuji.

Subjects are acted upon (pushed) by the tester.

Subject A uses body connection and peng jin to redirect the force into the ground.

Subject B uses physical muscular strength to overcome an opposing force.

IMO you would see the following.

1) Subject A would seem to be relaxed and stable, using peng to redirect the force into the ground.

2) Subject B exerting much more of his own strength to overcome the incoming force, and thereby displaying outward or external attributes thereof.
- Muscular tension
- Local muscluar flexion
- Muscular failure.
Eventually being overcome by the greater force.

I hope that this clarifies it somewhat.
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

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