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#321593 - 02/11/07 12:58 AM Shamrock vs. Gracie Spoiler
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I went to the fights tonight, and there were some great ones. Only two went the distance. All the rest ended in the first round.

The first match was Bo Cantrell versus Tim Percy. Percy, an Oyama representative won in the first round by KO.

Local Memphian Mike Powell won in the first round with the RNC against Ross Inez.

Our other local boy, Adriano Nasal, lost in a contreversial split decision to Javier Vazquez.

Another noted local, John Shackleford lost to Edson Berto by TKO. First round.

The next match put Cris Gates against Tokyo's own Riki Fukuda. Fukuda won by tko.

Kj Noons vs Charles Crazy horse Bennett was a contreversial match due to Bennetts less than spectacular attitude. Bennett did go on to win by ko.

The best fight of the night, and the only one to put the whole crowd on its feet came from the two female competitors of the night. Gina Carano completely dominated julie Kenzie in what turned out to be a spectacular fight. If we had more women like these two there would definately be a Womans MMA league.

The worst fight of the night had to be between David Loiseau and joe Villasenor. Very slow paced, little striking and subpar grappling. Villasenor wins by decision.

The super heavyweight fight between Antonio Silva and Wesley Correra was excellent. Slugfest all around with the win going to silva.

The last fight of the night was one of the shortest and worse Ive seen. Im highly dissapointed. Shamrock came away with the win over Gracie. Not by ko, or by submission but by use of what looked like to many to be an illegal move. He kneed Renzo in the back of the neck, twice, at the base of his skull. To Shamrocks credit, he was on his back so from his angle he might not have known he was doing it, but after a onesided first round, it was felt that he did it as an easy out for the win. Had the fight go on I feel Renzo would have easily alked away the victor. All in all a good night.

I got to Meet Bill Goldberg Briefly as well as the EliteXC girls! Way hot! Some other notable faces would be Quinton Action Jackson, Forrest Griffin, Jimmy Kimmel, The Memphis Grizzlies, Jeff Mullen and of course, Myself!

Well worth the money spent.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#321594 - 02/11/07 01:19 AM Re: Shamrock vs. Gracie Spoiler [Re: Chen Zen]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Gina Carino is my future wife

She put on the best performance of the night. Frank Shamrock lost by QD, they decided the knees to the back of the head were on purpose, because he had received a warning.

It was funny how they tried to keep the fight going for the sake of EliteXC reputation instead of the safety of the athletes.

First when they saw that Renzo could not continue, Frank began to raise his hand, then the ref came over and held it up...He was called the winner...but not officially. Then they saw Renzo was trying to stand up, so they gave him the 5 minutes to recuperate so they cold continue the match. ONce they saw he might have a concussion and needs medical attention, then the ref, annoucner and head of EliteXC get together and determine that Frank Shamrock purposefully kneed Renzo on the back of the head.

All the while Renzo ws trying to recover so they could continue the fight. Frank was trash talking saying that "he came here to fight not wrestle."

Ofcourse it was obvious to anyone that Renzo had dominated the first round and held top and side ground control for the majority of both rounds.

Once Renzo left the ring, the ref made the official announcement. Renzo Gracie wins, Shamrock loses due to DQ. This wipes the smirk off Shamrock's face. He then starts making claims that Renzo knew he was going to get knocked out that is why he took it to the mats, and became afraid so he used this little excuse to bow out gracefully.

He later comments that he is "old school" and he does whatever he does to win.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#321595 - 02/11/07 09:22 AM Re: Shamrock vs. Gracie Spoiler [Re: Chen Zen]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

The worst fight of the night had to be between David Loiseau and joe Villasenor. Very slow paced, little striking and subpar grappling. Villasenor wins by decision.




Somewhat surprised to hear that. Loiseau I have seen before. Good striker, and good on the ground, at least at defending.

Gina I'll have to look up!
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#321596 - 02/11/07 10:23 AM Re: Shamrock vs. Gracie Spoiler [Re: TeK9]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Quote:



He later comments that he is "old school" and he does whatever he does to win.




Wow. How classy. This after trying to use "the rules" to get stood up. Sounds like Sham lost a lot of fans in his "big comeback."

Sad.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#321597 - 02/11/07 12:42 PM Re: Shamrock vs. Gracie Spoiler [Re: Fletch1]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I watched the Showtime coverage of this fight last night, and I think Shamrock got hosed... but of course, the Gracies have been getting a pass on lots of things over the years to keep their legend alive.

Every time Gracie took Shamrock down, he was getting hammered in the ribs and kidney area with knees, so he changed his position on this last grapple to a "face forward" position. If Shamrock had pasted him in the face, I'm betting that they would have given Gracie the same pass he got for the "behind the head" blow that caused the DQ.

The referee was standing there watching the whole thing, and didn't say a word until Gracie rolled off with a concussion, so it's as much his fault as Shamrock's... he was just hitting what he could reach. Gracie had the option of moving his head and neck out of the way.

Like anything else that involves big money, this is becoming like Wide World wrestling with the "drama" being choreagraphed by the promoters. Since it involved the Gracies, there would have been some controversy if Shamrock had been standing there boxing him and knocked him out.

My question has always been... how can you have "unrestricted fighting" with rules? If "anything goes", then whatever happens happens... it's one thing to stop a fight when a guy is unprotected and unable to defend himself, but in an open fighting tournament, there shouldn't be an illegal hit called because the guy they wanted to win got knocked out.

I couldn't sleep last night is the only reason I watched this, and it lived down to all my expectations.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#321598 - 02/11/07 04:34 PM Re: Shamrock vs. Gracie Spoiler [Re: wristtwister]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I was so disappointed when i saw the ref raise Frank's hand that I left before the official announcement, and to beat the traffic. Im glad to hear he got DQ'd. They took Renzo out of the ring with a neck brace. Not to mention Shamrock had a pretty crappy attitude. I dont know how much of his commentary got played on Showtime but they had talked to him several times throughout the night. He even once said that "he built MMA" and that if he fought a Gracie he "wanted to hurt them" so that the world knew that the "Shamrock's are the original family of MMA" . Whatever all that means.

As for the Loiseau fight, I was surprised too, having seen him fight before. Rather disappointing.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#321599 - 02/11/07 05:21 PM Re: Shamrock vs. Gracie Spoiler [Re: Fletch1]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Fletch1

You would think so, but this seemed to be a Shamrock crowd, because the people blamed Gracie and cheered for Shamrock. Almost a completely different crowd than UFC fans. They actually cheered the trash talker.

After the fight Ceaser Gracie came out on behalf of Renzo and stated that Renzo may have a concussion and that he is being taken to the hospital. He commented that there are rules in MMA and that this is not a street fight.

Shamrock countered by stating he must have missed the day they were going over the new rules. Because he is from the old school...

Shamrock later said "If this is the only way the Gracies can beat me fine...sure I'll take this loss, I mean I haven't lost in ten years and if this is how they want to do it."
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#321600 - 02/11/07 06:35 PM Re: Shamrock vs. Gracie Spoiler [Re: TeK9]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I don't keep up with MMA on any scale, but I do think that the Gracies are the last ones who should ever get a "rules victory", since the way they made their reputation was by kicking the famous Judoka from Japan in the ballz to open their first international match (which was clearly against the rules). Everybody always seems to give them a pass on breaking rules or by calling it "innovative technique", but as long as their name has been involved in MA, it's been clouded by their obsession with winning by any means. If you want to fight like that, you shouldn't whine if you get a dose of your own medicine.

I've been around since the 60's in MA, and have seen some true "bad a$$es" in the ring, and gotten my bell rung by a few of them... but they all followed the rules and didn't try to make them up as they went along. That, unfortunately, seems to be the history of the Gracies. They were good grapplers, but they took their grappling skills to a different level when they decided to add the punching and kicking into their "tournament style" without bothering to inform their competitors.

The way to appear invincible is to have the other guy disqualified if he beats you. My take on Renzo's action in this one, was that he decided he didn't want Shamrock banging into his ribs with those knee strikes and took a different position, which put his head in the wrong place, and he ended up paying for it. The strikes looked to me like they were into the muscle area between his neck and shoulder. If they were, and hit his head, they had to be glancing blows, not directly into the head as they claimed. I suppose it's a little harder to aim your strikes when you're upside down with somebody sitting on your chest, but that's just me...

Just as a question, how many of you train doing knee strikes upside down while being held down? Apparently, that's going to be a new rules violation, so you better add it to your training schedule.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#321601 - 02/11/07 08:48 PM Re: Shamrock vs. Gracie Spoiler [Re: wristtwister]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Quote:

I don't keep up with MMA on any scale, but I do think that the Gracies are the last ones who should ever get a "rules victory", since the way they made their reputation was by kicking the famous Judoka from Japan in the ballz to open their first international match (which was clearly against the rules).




That's COMPLETE [censored]. That was a rematch, and payback for Yoshida and the Japanese ref cheating so that they could get a win over Royce. And it was nowhere near being the first international match. Or 10th. Or 100th. Or 1000th.

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#321602 - 02/11/07 10:46 PM Re: Shamrock vs. Gracie Spoiler [Re: migo]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Well, pal, the first anybody heard of the Gracies in the general MA community was after that Yoshida match, so BS or not, it was their public "coming out party" and the movies of it are famous. Like I said, I don't personally follow MMA, and remember when Royce Gracie was only known as a Judo player.

I find it hilarious that you get the win by going to the hospital... maybe it's better to be the loser in that scenario. One of my good friends lost the world championship in karate by knocking out his opponent in 2.5 seconds of the first round for using "excessive contact". I'm betting he would have rather been the loser than remembered as the "champion who got knocked out" to win.

I always wonder how you have "excessive contact" or "illegal strikes" when you have an open rules forums like some of the MMA. I just watched the Shamrock-Gracie fight again, and it still looks like Gracie put himself in the position to get his brains knocked out.

While Gracie was "controlling the fight" from the top position, he was taking a beating from knee strikes into the ribs, and turned himself so his head was in the line of fire from Shamrock's knees. It's kind of like blocking a punch with your chin... and then blaming the guy for knocking you out. His "top position" looked more defensive to me than offensive, and he was still getting pounded.

Don't worry though, the promoters will have them back in the ring and on television at some elevated cost to everyone... promoters love "grudge matches". If you need more drama, watch the WWF or WWE or whatever they call the other acronym wrestling federations. It's all choreagraphed by the promoters.

I could tell you stories about it, but my buddy Ric Flair would get mad at me. He's almost as old as me, and still makes the crowds go wild... Grandpa wrestling at it's best...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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