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#320978 - 02/08/07 10:51 AM Hanzi / Kanji
Tashigae Offline
Mister Bendy

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 690
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
I realized this forum can't display Chinese / Japanese ideograms (havn't tried Thai, Hebrew, Korean, Russian and other potentially useful alphabets from a martial point of view yet). Probably no major issue, since this forum is meant to be in English only; but still, I can't help thinking that using terms in the original tongue of the art you're talking about can be useful now and then (many of us do, especially among japanese arts guys). And when you do that, I personally tend to think that adding the original writing would be a valuable addition: it might make clearer to the reader that some terms with identical pronunciation can have different meanings (like "ken", which can mean "sword", "fist", or "Barbie's boyfriend" ), and on the other hand, that terms with different pronunciations - or just different Latin-alphabet translitterations - are actually one and the same thing and read as such in their original writing system (like pinyin Mandarin "qi", Wade-Giles Mandarin "chi", EFEO Mandarin "tchi", Kantonese and Japanese "ki"...).

What do you guys think?
And to whoever it depends upon: any chance we might one day taste the pleasure of seeing those beautiful characters unrolling on the pages of this no-less-beautiful forum?
_________________________
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#320979 - 02/08/07 11:32 AM Re: Hanzi / Kanji [Re: Tashigae]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
No.

The support team said it's a no-go.

The forum's in English. Sorry.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#320980 - 02/09/07 02:06 AM Re: Hanzi / Kanji [Re: Taison]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
I hope we can, because as I said in Forum help, I have some pretty mind-blowing stuff which requires the use of Chinese ideograms for illustration purposes. Pity.

How do I get a 'Link' to put the stuff elsewhere so that members can have clickable access?
_________________________
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#320981 - 02/09/07 04:20 AM Re: Hanzi / Kanji [Re: ButterflyPalm]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
There should be options to do Hanzi or Kanji as jpegs. There should also be a possibility of doing them as emotes.

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#320982 - 02/09/07 04:46 AM Re: Hanzi / Kanji [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Butterfly,

If you do wish to display chinese characters, you could upload the picture unto photobucket.com and then display them here like I did;



Other than this way, no, the forum does not support Chinese, Thai, Hebrew, Russian or Japanese characters.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#320983 - 02/09/07 08:18 AM Re: Hanzi / Kanji [Re: Taison]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Ah so, your Taison is 'Tai Zun'? -- "Great Respect / Esteem" ?

But my problem is I need to show the Chinese ideograms in their full as well as their component parts with English explanatory text on the side. My character software can do that.

The stuff that I wanted to show is that some of the Chinese characters / ideograms contain many Biblical, Mesopotamian stories/legends hidden in them, pointing to the proposition that the ancient Chinese race (prior to 2700 BC) had their racial roots/origins in the Biblical era, from which they emigrated East.

Here is the first part of the text without the character evidence:-

Middle East / Biblical Stories embedded in the Chinese characters

Dr. Ong Hean-Tatt in his book ‘The Chinese Pakua, an Expose”, postulated that the traditional Chinese characters contain remarkable revelations of Middle Eastern / Biblical legends such as, among others, the Edenic Creation , the Great Flood-Deluge (Noah’s Ark) and the Tower of Babel. It seems that Jesuit writers as early as the 17th century wrote about them. The contentions, if correct, imply that the Chinese language, and by extension, the Chinese race must have had Middle Eastern origins.

Dr. Ong goes on to examine several Chinese ideograms believed to contain stories of the Garden of Eden and the central characters figured therein, namely, the creationistic God, Adam and Eve, the Devil, the Trees of Life and Knowledge of Good & Evil.

First a few words about Chinese characters. The Chinese characters are not arbitrary but adopt objective principles to convey their meanings. The association of ideas indicated by the sub-characters often provides the overall meaning of the ideogram as a whole. Thus for example the Chinese word for ‘island’ ( 岛 ) has the sub-characters for ‘bird’ (on top) and ‘hill / mountain’ (at bottom) and the more complex words have multiple sub-characters, arranged either from left to right or up and down and combinations thereof. An individual ideogram as a whole therefore conveys a central meaning / idea culled from the rational inter-play of the pictographic sub-characters.

The following, an excerpt of one chapter of the said book, illustrates that where the ideas involve major ancient events, the ancient Chinese ideograms, unwittingly or purposely, would have become devices to preserve ancient history; in this case, ancient Middle Eastern / Biblical history from Eden to the Tower of Babel, where, the author argues, the ancient ancestors of the Chinese race once resided and forced (or ordered) to leave on an eastern track in the direction of and ended up at the geographical area of present China.

There are many Middle East legends. One of the clearest versions would be the Biblical version. Many such legends or events could have been witnessed by the ancient ancestors of the Chinese race and formed parts of the racial memory and ancient (unrecorded) history of the Chinese people. The Thesis herein therefore postulates that these legends / events are recorded in the ideograms of the Chinese language.

Now, here is the evidence.

The Biblical Creation Ideograms

Many cultures tell of a legend of creation. The Bible records:-

‘In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth become without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters’ (Genesis)


The Chinese language preserved various ideograms describing the Genesis creation.

(what follows is only the English text without the Chinese characters illustrating the above propositions; for those who read Chinese can perhaps imagine it)

(1) The Chinese word for ‘spirit’ is ‘Ling’

The sub-characters (‘subs’) are:-

(one) heaven; water; work; rain; mouths (people);

man; worker of magic.

The word ‘Ling’ is a very complex ideogram. As ‘Ling’ means ‘spirit’, some of the subs must refer to ‘spirit things’. The subs of ‘two men and work’ whose combination mean a ‘magician’ could convey the sense of something ‘supernatural’ So would the common symbol of ‘one’ for ‘heaven’ Thus the word ‘Ling’ conveys the idea of something supernatural coming from heaven, covering the waters, and the three mouths ( Triune? ) worked magic.

(2) The Chinese word for ‘create’ is ‘Zao’

The subs are:-

earth/mud; mouth (breath); movement/life; (able to) walk.

Thus we have the idea that God formed man from earth/mud and breathed from mouth life and man become able to walk.

(3) The Chinese word for ‘west’ is ‘Xi’

The subs are:-

first; man; enclosure; field / garden.

Thus we get the idea that the first man was in an enclosure (Garden of Eden)
The Chinese therefore remembered that they came from Eden in the West.

(4) The Chinese word for ‘happiness / blessing’ is ‘Fu’

The subs are:-

God; first; mouth (person); field/garden.

Thus happiness is when the first man (Adam) was in the garden with God.

(5) The Chinese word for ‘devil’ is ‘Kuei’

The subs are:-

movement / life; field / garden; man (being); privately.

Thus we have the idea that into the garden came a being with a private / secret thing.

(6) The Chinese word for ‘tempter’ is ‘Mo’

The subs are:-

cover; tree(s); devil.

Thus the devil from the covering of trees with a secret (privately) tempts Eve.

(7) The Chinese word for ‘covet’ ‘desire’ is ‘Lan’

The subs are:-

tree(s); forest; woman.

So the fruit of the tree was coveted / desired by the woman.

(8) The Chinese word for ‘boat’ is ‘Chuan’

The subs are:-

The left sub-character is for a boat / vessel and those on the right are:-

eight; mouth / person /people.

Well, the eight (mouths) persons on the boat were Noah’s family of 8 who escaped the Flood in a boat (Ark)

(9) The Chinese word for ‘island’ is ‘Dao’

The subs are:-

bird; hill / mountain.

So we have a bird high above or on a mountain, i.e. the bird sent by Noah as the Flood receded

(10) The Chinese word for ‘forbidden’ is ‘Jin’

The subs are:-

tree; God.

Thus they were two trees and God forbid the fruit of one tree.

The author also alluded to some similarities and parallels between certain ancient Chinese and Jewish cultural traditions and symbolisms in order to make a case for a common origin for both. For example the uncanny similarity between the “Magic Square of 15” (where adding up all sides of the 9 squares gives 15) and the Hebraic Talisman of Saturn (the “Sigil of Saturn”)

As these are beyond the intention of this excerpt, readers can refer to the book which gives a comprehensive overview of these and many other matters on ancient religious history of the Chinese people (ancient and modern)

Just Google “Ong Hean Tatt”

END.




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#320984 - 02/09/07 11:12 AM Re: Hanzi / Kanji [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Tashigae Offline
Mister Bendy

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 690
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
Thanks for this interesting post, ButterflyPalm; even if it's only partially the type of explanations I had in mind when I started the thread, it illustrates particularly well how difficult it can sometimes be to discuss an asian term without being able to see it written. As for the content itself of your post, I think you should look into the works of René Guénon and Fritjof Schuon, if they've been translated in English (I'm almost sure Guénon has, and he's possibly the most brilliant thinker I've ever read): what you're talking about sticks to their doctrine, which claims that every human culture and civilization comes from a single primordial tradition.

And thanks again for your excerpt: I love that kind of cross-analysis, both from a historical, linguistical an spiritual point of view (although I feel to lazy to explain why ).
_________________________
文武雙全

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#320985 - 02/09/07 11:48 AM Re: Hanzi / Kanji [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
My nickname is of Chinese origin, Tai Zun, but people were having a lot of problems trying to pronounce it so I had to use the Japanese equivalent, Taison, which sounds like Tyson. Another cliche; I was doing boxing at the time. -_-

That is very interesting indeed. Never thought they would have biblical relationship. Never thought that before. I'll see what I can do. Keep it comming!

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#320986 - 02/26/07 12:25 AM Re: Hanzi / Kanji [Re: ButterflyPalm]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Here's the link to the site with the Chinese characters added.

http://www.esnips.com/doc/e359c9a2-13df-45c3-9b6b-745160121d99/Chinese-legends
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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