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#320055 - 02/02/07 11:18 PM Your UFC 67 Predictions
Zombie Zero Offline
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Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1987
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It's time for FA.com members to make their predictions for the outcome of UFC 67: All or Nothing

Who's going to win the following fights?

(Card subject to change)
Silva vs. Lutter (Middleweight Championship)
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/02/07 11:17 PM
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Halverson vs. Huerta
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/02/07 11:17 PM
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Cro Cop vs. Sanchez
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/02/07 11:17 PM
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Jackson vs. Eastman
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/02/07 11:17 PM
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Cote vs. Smith
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/02/07 11:17 PM
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Martin vs. Rivera
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/02/07 11:17 PM
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Edgar vs. Griffin
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 02/02/07 11:17 PM
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Hoger vs. Machida
Only one choice allowed


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Saraieva vs. Hazelett
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#320056 - 02/03/07 12:05 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Zombie Zero]
Crash Offline
Buckle up!

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 627
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Anderson's the "MAN" in that division in the UFC.
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#320057 - 02/03/07 09:51 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Zombie Zero]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Silva, CroCop and Jackson FTW. But I have been phenominally inaccurate in the past.
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#320058 - 02/03/07 03:43 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: MattJ]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

Silva, CroCop and Jackson FTW. But I have been phenominally inaccurate in the past.




I agree Matt and am also rooting for my fellow Canadian Cote. I will be watching but for some reason I don't think this will be as good as card as last time, though we shall see as I've been proven wrong as well in the past.

P.S. I hope that Silva loses, I don't know why but I'd just like to see somebody beat him and if a ground guy does it the better. However I think he is a great fighter and if he wins I'm all for it as he'll deserve it.
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#320059 - 02/03/07 04:50 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
i think it would be hysterical if 'the big bad Pride fighters' got spanked before they even got near a title match
I dont think it will happen because Dana has a lot invested in them, but even so, i would chuckle
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#320060 - 02/03/07 04:53 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
I predict Travis Lutter doesn't make weight.

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#320061 - 02/04/07 03:02 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: medulanet]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
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Loc: Great White North
Lutter didn't make weight and he looked defeated when he came to the ring and when he fought. He did give it a go but had nothing in way of strength after losing over 20 lbs. I now believe that Silva can be beaten by a good ground fighter.

Rampage and Cro-Cop were okay fights but not over-the-top especially since they were fightng the cream of the crop. I would have thought they would have been over faster but that wasn't the case, and Rampage admitted he'd never been that nervous before.

Some okay fights and some duds, like usually, but this one was not near as exciting as the last UFC bought. However the one in March looks to great.
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"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#320062 - 02/05/07 01:16 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
i think Rampage looked very ordinary- he said post fight that he had to sharpen up before he met chuck again, and the camera cut to chuck nodding and laughing in agreement Seems like a very classy guy though- nice interview.

Crocop was given a donkey to whip for the evening- that was Dana trying to guarantee a highlight reel, but the donkey had a very hard head. Crocop did get a chance to put on a display of what he does on a heavy bag though, and it is clear why he is seen as one of the hardest strikers in the game. Next time I would like to see him against someone who has a guard, some balance, and more than an overhand right i his arsenal
I thought fighter of the night was Tyson Griffin. His match was amazing- exciting and technical, what its all about
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#320063 - 02/05/07 01:58 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
migo Offline
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Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
I have MAJOR respect for Eddie Sanchez for the performance he put up against Mirko - he tried an offensive, kept in there as long as he could (I actually thought the stoppage was at a stupid time, he wasn't being hit right then, about 5 seconds earlier it looked bad, but he was working for the same reversal Anderson pulled off on Travis) took a lot of what Mirko had to offer and fought back even though he was backpedaling for a lot of the fight.

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#320064 - 02/05/07 05:40 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

i think it would be hysterical if 'the big bad Pride fighters' got spanked before they even got near a title match
I dont think it will happen because Dana has a lot invested in them, but even so, i would chuckle





We're already seeing it happen with Heath Herring. More will fall as well in time. But you're right about Dana. He's not going to let that happen quickly. He's a smart man. He's going to throw them some "flesh gollums" before they face any serious challenges.


-John

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#320065 - 02/05/07 09:27 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

I thought fighter of the night was Tyson Griffin. His match was amazing- exciting and technical, what its all about




That was a great fight and I would have given Tyson the first two rounds giving him the fight. What a leg lock he put on the other guy ... ouch. Tyson's last fight he looked to be in much better shape as this fight it looked like he was carrying a little extra weight.
_________________________
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#320066 - 02/05/07 10:25 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Lutter didn't make weight and he looked defeated when he came to the ring and when he fought. He did give it a go but had nothing in way of strength after losing over 20 lbs. I now believe that Silva can be beaten by a good ground fighter.




Lutter is a good ground fighter, he just made mistakes, as many people do. Thats the thing about Silva and a real title fight. His skills ground skills (BJJ black belt) are good enough to give him time through a five round fight to knock anyone in the UFC out. Only a few guys in the UFC could take him that are close to his weight class, and they aren't in the MW division.

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#320067 - 02/05/07 12:56 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Wasn't Lutter suppose to be a awesome BJJ ground fighter? Did you know that Silva has rank in BJJ? I haven't seen the fights but I can't wait. Did Sival KO Lutter? I hope not he is almost a home boy from Texas, thats close to home. He looked like a very good JJ man.

Whats that talk that the Pride has better fighters then UFC? I can't tell. Didn't Silva come from Pride, I guest thats some proof? And CroCo he IS a devastating striker, he going to shake things up Tim Silva, do you smell whats cookin is the kitchen.

Sometimes it looks like Rampage is just strong a smaller version of Bob Sapp (Rampage is a better puncher).
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#320068 - 02/05/07 05:31 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

I have MAJOR respect for Eddie Sanchez for the performance he put up against Mirko - he tried an offensive, kept in there as long as he could (I actually thought the stoppage was at a stupid time, he wasn't being hit right then, about 5 seconds earlier it looked bad, but he was working for the same reversal Anderson pulled off on Travis) took a lot of what Mirko had to offer and fought back even though he was backpedaling for a lot of the fight.




Eddie sanchez has a hard head. If he learned how to keep from falling over every time he swung a punch, and took time to work on trivialities like a guard, he would not have to prove that as often as he did in this fight. There are no prizes for 'most durable punch bag in the UFC'- ask Corriera, and he was a much better fighter than Sanchez.

The fight was stopped at the right time, its irresponsible to let an outclassed fighter take pointless punishment. No way in hell any of his lunging arm punches were going to land, let alone bother Crocop, so it was an act of well judged mercy to let sanchez take an early shower, not a trip to the brain scanner.
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#320069 - 02/05/07 05:59 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Plus Sanchez needs to work on the jab which he failed to use especially when always on the retreat. When backing up you never throw from your back hand like he continually did. His jab hand would have served him better and would have kept him further out of harm ... but getting into the ring with Cro Cop kind of blew that out of the water. I give Sanchez his dues as he got the opportunity and he took it and did better then many thought he would do.
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#320070 - 02/06/07 02:53 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Quote:

The fight was stopped at the right time,




No it wasn't, he wasn't getting hit at the time of the stoppage and for several seconds before it, plus he was working for a reversal at that moment. A more appropriate time would have been 5-10 seconds earlier, or to let it continue for another few seconds to see if Sanchez couldn't get Mirko off and if Mirko started landing solid shots again in that time. The beating Vitor put on Tito was far more serious than what Mirko was doing to Eddie, and Tito is obviously fine.

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#320071 - 02/06/07 11:09 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:


No it wasn't, he wasn't getting hit at the time of the stoppage and for several seconds before it, plus he was working for a reversal at that moment.




No he wasn't. What he was doing was wriggling around like a little worm on a big hook having been dropped on his a$$. He was not 'looking' for anything, as he was stunned and had his eyes screwed up in discomfort. Crocop had landed some GnP, and had just got in position to land plenty more.
These are modern athletes, Sanchez will heal quickly, and get back to training and fighting in a short space of time. Thats how it should be. These guys should not be visiting hospital because of your desire to see someone battered unconscious.
Crocop had won the fight- any further action would have been pointless, and only to the detriment of sanchez's health.
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#320072 - 02/06/07 11:55 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
I agree with Cord, this was only Cro-cop's first bout in the UFC and Sanchez was not supposed to be a serious challenge. Under these comditions, why give Sanchez masses of unneccessary punishment for what is a relatively unimportant match. If it was a title fight, then I might be more willing to see the match go further, but it's just not worth it, when you're already getting dominated.

Question: Would you want to carry on fighting if you'd been completely taken apart the whole fight and had no answers for it? I think Sanchez would agree that it's better to keep his body relatively intact than have his body destroyed just for the sake of "warrior spirit."

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#320073 - 02/07/07 03:24 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
migo Offline
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Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Whether you recognise it or not, Sanchez was trying for the same reversal Silva used on Lutter at the time Mazagatti stopped the fight. Cro-Cop had just missed one punch and landed a weak punch right before the stoppage as well. Sanchez was not getting hurt AND he was defending intelligently at the time of the stoppage therefore it was not stopped at the right time, regardless of whether people expected him to lose and gave him no chance at winning.

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#320074 - 02/07/07 10:30 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
i recognise a reversal attempt just as clearly as I recognise someone writhing around on a hiding to nowhere. The refs job is to stop the fight when a fighter is unable to defend himself- not when he is being punched senseless. The position Crocop got into, combined with the inability Sanchez showed in escaping from, or defending from it, made the stoppage perfectly sensible.
you think its early, I think its right. As armchair refs, If i am wrong, the only thing that is hurt is Sanchez's pride. If you are wrong, then crocop pounds sanchez's head into burger meat.
No one has a crystal ball- not even for 10 seconds into the future, so the ref played it right.
Unless of course you thought Sanchez had a real chance of winning based on what had transpired up to that point!?
Come on Migo, own up- how much did you have on Sanchez?
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#320075 - 02/07/07 03:16 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
Tom2199 Offline
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Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 832
Loc: England
i agree with cord on this one, those were precise strong blows more of those would have just ended in Sanchez getting a nice 4oz facial...
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#320076 - 02/08/07 03:16 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
migo Offline
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Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Nothing. I had money on Mirko. You don't stop a fight based on what you think will happen in 10 seconds, you stop it because of what has happened. At the time the fight was stopped, Mirko was punching at a rate that wouldn't turn anyone's face into burger meat, certainly wasn't hitting nearly as hard as he was in standup, had just missed once and followed with a weak punch. No matter how you try to cut it, the fight was stopped at a bad time. I don't blame Mazagatti for doing it, but it was stopped at a bad time nonetheless.

And you obviously don't recognise a reversal attempt when you see one if you don't think Sanchez was trying for one.

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#320077 - 02/08/07 07:35 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

And you obviously don't recognise a reversal attempt when you see one if you don't think Sanchez was trying for one.




Jeez, no need to get prissy and defensive old son, it wasn't you gettin your a$$ handed to you- was it!?

OMG the new thread- Is Migo actually Sanchez in RL?
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#320078 - 02/08/07 03:05 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
migo Offline
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Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
You're claiming you can recognise reversals while claiming what was a reversal attempt wasn't one. You're clearly wrong. I was just pointing that out. If you don't know how that reversal works, that's not a problem. Just don't go claiming it's not a reversal just because of your lack of knowledge in that area.

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#320079 - 02/08/07 03:41 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
OK, here is a link to the fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0W_Mw-yHY4

I will grant you that Sanchez did OK up until 1:31 of the last round. At that point, it becomes a slugfest for CroCop.

I am going to have to agree with Cord. Sanchez was not making a credible effort for a reversal after being initially mounted. One attempted buck, and an attempt by Sanchez to block CC's arms with his feet do not count as a great reversal attempt.

Sanchez was getting pounded the entire time, right up until the ref stopped it. Looked like a good call to me, after nearly a full minute of little effective opposition by Sanchez.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#320080 - 02/08/07 05:42 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Which fight were you watching migo? All I saw was Cro-cop in full mount punching Sanchez. Sanchez did nothing but writhe around and even with his hands up his defense was pretty inexistant. You can see Cro-cop hit him as the ref ends the fight, so the idea that Sanchez was recovering is nonsense, he was getting pounded.

Sure the ref could have let the fight go on, after all it's only a bit more blood and brain damage for Sanchez? To make Sanchez go on from then would be pretty irresponsible if you ask me, it wouldn't of happened in a boxing match in similar circumstances, it shouldn't be allowed to happen in the UFC.

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#320081 - 02/08/07 05:55 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: MattJ]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I watched it live on PPV on Saturday night. I just watched it again and I cannot see where Sanchez is going to do any reversal. He certainly is trying to defend from getting hit and even tries squirming from left to right and back but Cro Cop is mounted well and moves with him and infact Cro Cop passed several opportunities to do a step-over-armbar on Sanchez. Perhaps Cro Cop did not want to take a chance as so close to the fence but more then likely he knew he was in a dominant position and that he would win by continuing to punch him. Cro Cop was never in any danger in this position whereas Sanchez was eating punches. PLUS the most important thing, the ref repeated twice "You have to fight out of there" and because Sanchez was in such a poor position the ref stopped it. I even counted that while the ref was saying this twice till he stopped Cro Cop, Cro Cop got off 6 punches that all landed not to mention the many he did prior ... and I just watched this portion 5 times just now. Didn't see any reversal coming up at all and the ref stepped in at the right time; no question at all.

Sanchez did well in my estimation, I take nothing away from him. He was set up to lose but he gave it his all but was grossly over matched. He stepped in with the big dog and walked out and can hold his head high. He kept moving from side to side to limit the hits but unfortunately they were still landing. He tried to hook his legs under Cro Cop's arms but Cro Cop was aware of this and his position allowed him to manuever easily over top of Sanchez so that he was never in any trouble. Sanchez was mounted too long and Cro Cop was too busy, the ref had no choice and a few seconds more or a few minutes more could have been the difference of Sanchez walking out on his own or being knocked unconscious and being helped out of the ring.

I think you had better review the video as I don't see it any other way.
_________________________
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#320082 - 02/09/07 03:23 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: MattJ]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Quote:

.

I am going to have to agree with Cord. Sanchez was not making a credible effort for a reversal after being initially mounted. One attempted buck, and an attempt by Sanchez to block CC's arms with his feet do not count as a great reversal attempt.





That wasn't trying to block with his feet, that's a standard reversal set up. It's the exact same one Silva used on Lutter (who was doing a better GnP job than Cro Cop at the time). The way to avoid getting reversed that way is to lean forward, which takes away a good striking angle. Even if it isn't succesful as a reversal, it is still useful, especially near the end of the round for lasting it out.

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#320083 - 02/09/07 03:34 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Quote:

He tried to hook his legs under Cro Cop's arms but Cro Cop was aware of this and his position allowed him to manuever easily over top of Sanchez so that he was never in any trouble.




Yes, and every time he had to move to avoid it he had to stop throwing punches. With 30 seconds left and combining shrimping with reversal attempts that's enough time to last to the end of the round. Cro Cop was doing more damage to Eddie standing up than on the ground. Eddie handled Cro Cop's standup, he was handling the Ground and Pound too. By the standards that this fight was stopped Lutter vs Silva should have been stopped, Belfort vs Ortiz should have been stopped, Hughes vs Trigg 2 should have been stopped. Silva was in an equally bad position and Lutter had the same armbar opportunity that Cro Cop had (and has in fact demonstrated the ability to armbar someone from that position which Cro Cop hasn't yet), Hughes and Ortiz were both in a much worse situation than Sanchez and they were still allowed to continue fighting and were fine for it. Your argument is that Mirko was much better than Sanchez and Sanchez couldn't beat Mirko, so because Mirko was in a domninant position the fight should be stopped. That's not how it works.

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#320084 - 02/09/07 09:04 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

With 30 seconds left and combining shrimping with reversal attempts that's enough time to last to the end of the round.




It is if you havent just been floored by strikes, if you are not gassed and in pain - and if your defensive 'attempts' (alleged) are remotely effective.

Quote:

Cro Cop was doing more damage to Eddie standing up than on the ground.




So you admit that Crocop was damaging Sanchez on the ground.

Quote:

Eddie handled Cro Cop's standup, he was handling the Ground and Pound too.




No he wasn't. The closest to 'handling' his standup that he came to was not dropping like a stone when kicked in the head. He is strong and very brave, but the strikes that lead to him being on the ground would have got him a count in a boxing ring, and he would not have beaten it.

He got beat fair and square. You may well not think much of my opinion, thats OK, but it would appear that the fight I saw, was the same as others on here who have a lot of grapple experience saw, and that was also the fight observed by the Ref.
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#320085 - 02/09/07 01:45 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

With 30 seconds left and combining shrimping with reversal attempts that's enough time to last to the end of the round.




I will agree with this, I think he could have made it to the end of the round if the ref had allowed it.

Quote:

Cro Cop was doing more damage to Eddie standing up than on the ground.




Damage is damage and Sanchez was on the receiving end of this damage and was dealing nothing back.

Quote:

Eddie handled Cro Cop's standup, he was handling the Ground and Pound too.




No, Sanchez did not handle Cro Cop's stand up. He was continually moving backwards and if he wasn't in a cage he would have been in the stands using the spectators as human shields. No, Sanchez did not handle Cro Cop's ground 'n pound either. He tried to defend but it wasn't enough. Like I said earlier, Cro Cop passed up opportunities to end it early by arm barring him as Sanches offered up his arms continually. Cro Cop decided to stay on top and punch as that is more his game as he is a striker more then anything else. Don't mix up "trying" to defend and actually defending; these are two different things.

Quote:

By the standards that this fight was stopped Lutter vs Silva should have been stopped, Belfort vs Ortiz should have been stopped, Hughes vs Trigg 2 should have been stopped. Silva was in an equally bad position and Lutter had the same armbar opportunity that Cro Cop had (and has in fact demonstrated the ability to armbar someone from that position which Cro Cop hasn't yet), Hughes and Ortiz were both in a much worse situation than Sanchez and they were still allowed to continue fighting and were fine for it.




Again, I have to agree with you here. Those people were in far more compromising positions then Sanchez and taking more punishment and things were allowed to continue. I am only speculating but perhaps because these guys were proven fighters that they allowed more lee-way whereas Sanchez they did not consider a top fighter and wanted to ensure he did not get injured, especially with Cro Cop being who he is. And perhaps maybe they wanted to ensure that Cro Cop did not injure himself throwing all of those punches. For the Tito fight I can understand letting it go a little longer especially since his rematch with Ken Shamrock and calling it too early. But again I agree Sanchez was in no less harm then any of the fighters you mentioned.
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#320086 - 02/09/07 02:33 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
MattJ Offline
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Dereck nails it exactly. Nothing to add.
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#320087 - 02/10/07 01:49 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
migo Offline
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Quote:


Damage is damage and Sanchez was on the receiving end of this damage and was dealing nothing back.




Nevertheless, the fight was not stopped due to the damage standing, which Eddie wasn't responding to either.

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No, Sanchez did not handle Cro Cop's stand up. He was continually moving backwards and if he wasn't in a cage he would have been in the stands using the spectators as human shields.




He stayed standing for most of it, that's handling.

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No, Sanchez did not handle Cro Cop's ground 'n pound either. He tried to defend but it wasn't enough. Like I said earlier, Cro Cop passed up opportunities to end it early by arm barring him as Sanches offered up his arms continually. Cro Cop decided to stay on top and punch as that is more his game as he is a striker more then anything else. Don't mix up "trying" to defend and actually defending; these are two different things.




Cro Cop is rather passive on top, using his fights with Barnett (#2) and Hunt as examples, he usually isn't doing much damage when he gets top position. While he may have been passing up opportunities, that doesn't change that he's not as dangerous to opponents he's mounting as when he is standing.


Quote:

And perhaps maybe they wanted to ensure that Cro Cop did not injure himself throwing all of those punches.




That's a good theory actually. He was a heavy investment and they would want to protect it.

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For the Tito fight I can understand letting it go a little longer especially since his rematch with Ken Shamrock and calling it too early.




Ortiz/Belfort was well before Tito/Shamrock 2 and 3.

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But again I agree Sanchez was in no less harm then any of the fighters you mentioned.




Yeah, so basically the criterion people are going on is the stoppage is OK because it was the big bad CroCop he was fighting. I don't like that kind of reffing because I would like to see the fighters decide the outcome, not public opinion.

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#320088 - 02/10/07 12:53 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Dereck Offline
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Riddle me this migo ... if the ref let it go and Sanchez made it to the next round, do you think Sanchez would have a chance winning? You know the answer and the answer is "no". Sanchez wouldn't have lasted more then 2 more minutes in the next round, and most likely if the ref wouldn't have stopped it right then, after a few more good blows he probably would still have stopped it in the first round and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Did you happen to hear Sanchez's comments after the fight when he said, "wow, I've heard he could kick hard I just didn't think it was that hard". I don't think Sanchez is complaining that the fight was stopped and you shouldn't either. Sanchez feels crappy for losing for sure but when Dana walked into Sanchez's locker room after the fights and before the press conference, he congradulated Sanchez and said he'd be back and not to worry as it was Cro Cop he was up against.

Sanchez knew he was defeated. He knew his attempts to defend were unsuccessful and I don't think for once that Cro Cop's punches were not ringing Sanchez's bell as if you watch the video again, they were landing.

With all that is said and done we cannot go back and change it. The ref called the fight and that is the final decision. We all have our perspectives and we are not going to change each other's opinions, so I will leave it at that. I do however enjoy the discussion.
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#320089 - 02/10/07 10:58 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
migo Offline
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Registered: 09/03/06
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Quote:

Riddle me this migo ... if the ref let it go and Sanchez made it to the next round, do you think Sanchez would have a chance winning? You know the answer and the answer is "no". Sanchez wouldn't have lasted more then 2 more minutes in the next round, and most likely if the ref wouldn't have stopped it right then, after a few more good blows he probably would still have stopped it in the first round and we wouldn't be having this conversation.




He would have a puncher's chance. Randleman did it. And they let Loiseau take hellish beating from franklin. "He's going to lose anyway" is a stupid reason to stop the fight early.

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Did you happen to hear Sanchez's comments after the fight when he said, "wow, I've heard he could kick hard I just didn't think it was that hard". I don't think Sanchez is complaining that the fight was stopped and you shouldn't either. Sanchez feels crappy for losing for sure but when Dana walked into Sanchez's locker room after the fights and before the press conference, he congradulated Sanchez and said he'd be back and not to worry as it was Cro Cop he was up against.




I said I didn't blame Mazagatti for stopping it, I just said it wasn't stopped at a good time.

Quote:

Sanchez knew he was defeated. He knew his attempts to defend were unsuccessful and I don't think for once that Cro Cop's punches were not ringing Sanchez's bell as if you watch the video again, they were landing.




Yes, they were landing quite well 10 seconds before the fight was stopped. Right when the fight was stopped he landed .5/2 punches.

Quote:

With all that is said and done we cannot go back and change it. The ref called the fight and that is the final decision. We all have our perspectives and we are not going to change each other's opinions, so I will leave it at that. I do however enjoy the discussion.




I never have a problem with an early stoppage, it's better than a late one, but if something could be improved for the next time it should be discussed. I didn't see it as a problem until watching the replay, and he has to make the decision under stress, but in hindsight it was definitely not the best time to stop the fight.

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#320090 - 02/11/07 01:01 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Dereck Offline
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Loc: Great White North
Migo, I'm guessing this really doesn't have to do much with Sanchez and Cro Cop, but rather that you wish there was some ... what is the word ... consistancy in stoppages. There are a handful of refs they use and each does it slightly differently though they are all working from the same playbook. They are told to watch for signs from the fighters and make a decision of how well they are defending themselves as when to stop the fight. You could take 10 people and look at something and you may get 10 different answers and that is the problem ... the human factor. Sanchez would have lost, I have no doubt about that. Could he have weathered the storm for the next 30 so seconds, I believe it may have been possible, however we cannot see what the ref may have seen and perhaps a few more blows from Cro Cop may have done even more damage. The fighter is okay and not complaining about an early stoppage so no harm no foul. However I agree there are too many inconsistancies for when stoppages are decided, even from the same refs.
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#320091 - 02/11/07 05:54 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
migo Offline
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Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Yeah, pretty much. The CroCop/Sanchez specific issue here is everyone expected this to be a mismatch, so I think that expectation (Sanchez was paid a flat $30,000 for the fight, no win bonus) might have influenced the stoppage as well. I figure give the guy every reasonable chance to win, which is the same chance anyone else would get in that situation - he certainly deserves it for being willing to step in and fight CroCop.

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