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#320075 - 02/07/07 03:16 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
Tom2199 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 832
Loc: England
i agree with cord on this one, those were precise strong blows more of those would have just ended in Sanchez getting a nice 4oz facial...
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#320076 - 02/08/07 03:16 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
migo Offline
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Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Nothing. I had money on Mirko. You don't stop a fight based on what you think will happen in 10 seconds, you stop it because of what has happened. At the time the fight was stopped, Mirko was punching at a rate that wouldn't turn anyone's face into burger meat, certainly wasn't hitting nearly as hard as he was in standup, had just missed once and followed with a weak punch. No matter how you try to cut it, the fight was stopped at a bad time. I don't blame Mazagatti for doing it, but it was stopped at a bad time nonetheless.

And you obviously don't recognise a reversal attempt when you see one if you don't think Sanchez was trying for one.

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#320077 - 02/08/07 07:35 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

And you obviously don't recognise a reversal attempt when you see one if you don't think Sanchez was trying for one.




Jeez, no need to get prissy and defensive old son, it wasn't you gettin your a$$ handed to you- was it!?

OMG the new thread- Is Migo actually Sanchez in RL?
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#320078 - 02/08/07 03:05 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Cord]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
You're claiming you can recognise reversals while claiming what was a reversal attempt wasn't one. You're clearly wrong. I was just pointing that out. If you don't know how that reversal works, that's not a problem. Just don't go claiming it's not a reversal just because of your lack of knowledge in that area.

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#320079 - 02/08/07 03:41 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
OK, here is a link to the fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0W_Mw-yHY4

I will grant you that Sanchez did OK up until 1:31 of the last round. At that point, it becomes a slugfest for CroCop.

I am going to have to agree with Cord. Sanchez was not making a credible effort for a reversal after being initially mounted. One attempted buck, and an attempt by Sanchez to block CC's arms with his feet do not count as a great reversal attempt.

Sanchez was getting pounded the entire time, right up until the ref stopped it. Looked like a good call to me, after nearly a full minute of little effective opposition by Sanchez.
_________________________
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#320080 - 02/08/07 05:42 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Which fight were you watching migo? All I saw was Cro-cop in full mount punching Sanchez. Sanchez did nothing but writhe around and even with his hands up his defense was pretty inexistant. You can see Cro-cop hit him as the ref ends the fight, so the idea that Sanchez was recovering is nonsense, he was getting pounded.

Sure the ref could have let the fight go on, after all it's only a bit more blood and brain damage for Sanchez? To make Sanchez go on from then would be pretty irresponsible if you ask me, it wouldn't of happened in a boxing match in similar circumstances, it shouldn't be allowed to happen in the UFC.

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#320081 - 02/08/07 05:55 PM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: MattJ]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I watched it live on PPV on Saturday night. I just watched it again and I cannot see where Sanchez is going to do any reversal. He certainly is trying to defend from getting hit and even tries squirming from left to right and back but Cro Cop is mounted well and moves with him and infact Cro Cop passed several opportunities to do a step-over-armbar on Sanchez. Perhaps Cro Cop did not want to take a chance as so close to the fence but more then likely he knew he was in a dominant position and that he would win by continuing to punch him. Cro Cop was never in any danger in this position whereas Sanchez was eating punches. PLUS the most important thing, the ref repeated twice "You have to fight out of there" and because Sanchez was in such a poor position the ref stopped it. I even counted that while the ref was saying this twice till he stopped Cro Cop, Cro Cop got off 6 punches that all landed not to mention the many he did prior ... and I just watched this portion 5 times just now. Didn't see any reversal coming up at all and the ref stepped in at the right time; no question at all.

Sanchez did well in my estimation, I take nothing away from him. He was set up to lose but he gave it his all but was grossly over matched. He stepped in with the big dog and walked out and can hold his head high. He kept moving from side to side to limit the hits but unfortunately they were still landing. He tried to hook his legs under Cro Cop's arms but Cro Cop was aware of this and his position allowed him to manuever easily over top of Sanchez so that he was never in any trouble. Sanchez was mounted too long and Cro Cop was too busy, the ref had no choice and a few seconds more or a few minutes more could have been the difference of Sanchez walking out on his own or being knocked unconscious and being helped out of the ring.

I think you had better review the video as I don't see it any other way.
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#320082 - 02/09/07 03:23 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: MattJ]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Quote:

.

I am going to have to agree with Cord. Sanchez was not making a credible effort for a reversal after being initially mounted. One attempted buck, and an attempt by Sanchez to block CC's arms with his feet do not count as a great reversal attempt.





That wasn't trying to block with his feet, that's a standard reversal set up. It's the exact same one Silva used on Lutter (who was doing a better GnP job than Cro Cop at the time). The way to avoid getting reversed that way is to lean forward, which takes away a good striking angle. Even if it isn't succesful as a reversal, it is still useful, especially near the end of the round for lasting it out.

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#320083 - 02/09/07 03:34 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: Dereck]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Quote:

He tried to hook his legs under Cro Cop's arms but Cro Cop was aware of this and his position allowed him to manuever easily over top of Sanchez so that he was never in any trouble.




Yes, and every time he had to move to avoid it he had to stop throwing punches. With 30 seconds left and combining shrimping with reversal attempts that's enough time to last to the end of the round. Cro Cop was doing more damage to Eddie standing up than on the ground. Eddie handled Cro Cop's standup, he was handling the Ground and Pound too. By the standards that this fight was stopped Lutter vs Silva should have been stopped, Belfort vs Ortiz should have been stopped, Hughes vs Trigg 2 should have been stopped. Silva was in an equally bad position and Lutter had the same armbar opportunity that Cro Cop had (and has in fact demonstrated the ability to armbar someone from that position which Cro Cop hasn't yet), Hughes and Ortiz were both in a much worse situation than Sanchez and they were still allowed to continue fighting and were fine for it. Your argument is that Mirko was much better than Sanchez and Sanchez couldn't beat Mirko, so because Mirko was in a domninant position the fight should be stopped. That's not how it works.

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#320084 - 02/09/07 09:04 AM Re: Your UFC 67 Predictions [Re: migo]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

With 30 seconds left and combining shrimping with reversal attempts that's enough time to last to the end of the round.




It is if you havent just been floored by strikes, if you are not gassed and in pain - and if your defensive 'attempts' (alleged) are remotely effective.

Quote:

Cro Cop was doing more damage to Eddie standing up than on the ground.




So you admit that Crocop was damaging Sanchez on the ground.

Quote:

Eddie handled Cro Cop's standup, he was handling the Ground and Pound too.




No he wasn't. The closest to 'handling' his standup that he came to was not dropping like a stone when kicked in the head. He is strong and very brave, but the strikes that lead to him being on the ground would have got him a count in a boxing ring, and he would not have beaten it.

He got beat fair and square. You may well not think much of my opinion, thats OK, but it would appear that the fight I saw, was the same as others on here who have a lot of grapple experience saw, and that was also the fight observed by the Ref.
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