FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 73 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn, Ron_Cooley, businns
22902 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 12
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
TaekwonDoFan 2
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Iaido movements speed
by TooNice
04/14/14 01:47 PM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Recent Posts
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by cxt
Today at 11:35 AM
centerline concepts
by Dobbersky
07/18/14 06:14 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:38 AM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Forget all that health stuff
by TaekwonDoFan
06/29/14 03:18 AM
Forum Stats
22902 Members
36 Forums
35563 Topics
432450 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#319518 - 01/31/07 10:02 PM Yoshokai Aikido and Self Defense
tomh777 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Metro Detroit
I'm curious if there are any practicioners of Yoshokai Aikido out there. Secondly, how effective do you feel Yoshokai is for self defense? Thirdly, since Yoshokai is essentially an offshoot of Yoshinkan to what extent are there technical differences (if any) between the two styles?

Thanks

Top
#319519 - 02/01/07 01:06 PM Re: Yoshokai Aikido and Self Defense [Re: tomh777]
Richard_Norris Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 43
The differences are political, not technical, as it turns out. Regardless, Yoshinkan essentially originated as a dojo catering to the interests of the Toyko police department (and many officers still train at the Toyko dojo). Other than that, I'll leave "effective self-defense" to the pundits.

RN

Top
#319520 - 02/01/07 09:01 PM Re: Yoshokai Aikido and Self Defense [Re: tomh777]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
My senior student, who is godan in jujutsu and sandan in aikido joined a Yoshinkan dojo when he was nidan and went all the way back to "re-learn" his techniques and got his nidan again in Yoshinkan. The differences he picked up in his training was noticeable in his technique, and with the three styles of aiki blended together, he is quite formidable in aikido practice. As for whether or not Yoshinkan "works", it's a great style and has some of the best players in it that I've trained with over the years.

It's a little more than just "political", it's a different approach to things, and while it's pretty regimented, it's still extremely effective and interesting to train in because it's relatively mechanical in it's process of training more so than the other styles. I've always described it as the "military style" of Aikido.

If your "Yoshokai" is truly aikido, and an offshoot of this style, it should be very good and excellent for self defense. I've never trained specifically in Yoshinkan formally myself, but I have played against people who have, and I found them quite capable. JMHO FWIW...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

Top
#319521 - 02/01/07 09:45 PM Re: Yoshokai Aikido and Self Defense [Re: wristtwister]
tomh777 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Metro Detroit
I appreciate the feedback from all of you. I realize that there is no "best" martial art no "best self defense," etc, and that it really is an individual choice. For me, my question and confusion arises out of the fact that on the one hand I am aware that Yoshinkan is taught to the the Tokyo Police and was in many ways Shioda's attempt to return to Ueshiba's pre WWII Aikibudo. Now here is where I am confused...since Yoshokai is a derrivative of Yoshinkan to what extent are the techniques performed in a similar fashion? During my brief stay in Yoshokai (6 months) each technique was performed very robot like (e.g. step 1-pause-step 2-pause-step 3 pause). Does Yoshinkan follow a similar training pattern...or was this type of execution of technique simply done because I was at the beginner level? I have long since found a home in aiki jutsu. However, since my schedule and my sensei's schedules conflict I have seriously considered looking elsewhere for training. In Metro Detroit there are a large degree of Yoshinkan schools and I'm trying to determine if it's worth my while to check one out. On another note. If there are any Yoshokai black belts on this forum I'm curious to hear your response as to the difference in the training at the black belt verse the beginner level. I'm willing to plead ignorance here...but I'm also willing to learn.

Thanks

Top
#319522 - 02/02/07 03:07 AM Re: Yoshokai Aikido and Self Defense [Re: tomh777]
xuzen_628 Offline
Unknown MA champion

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 102
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Shioda's attempt to return to Ueshiba's pre WWII Aikibudo.



Tom, Shioda did not attempt to return to the Pre-WWII aikidbudo, he is a product of the Pre-WWII training methodology.
Quote:

Does Yoshinkan follow a similar training pattern...or was this type of execution of technique simply done because I was at the beginner level?



Yes, it is robotic like. If you have read some of the Yoshinkan books, the step by step was designed to enable one instructor to teach a large number of students. It was viewed as an efficient way to teach the Riot Police and the method was retained to teach the civilian as well. Think of it as drills.

As to whether this is only for beginner or not, well, once you are well verse with the basic technique (kihon waza/kata) you are encouraged to apply them in jiyu-waza (free techniques) and you are not required to do the step by step thingy in jiyu-waza.

FWIW, I am a yudansha in the yoshinkan lineage, not yoshokai, if there is any difference at all.

X wf.
_________________________
Knowing one technique that will surely work is better than knowing hundred that will probably work.

Top
#319523 - 02/02/07 01:27 PM Re: Yoshokai Aikido and Self Defense [Re: wristtwister]
Richard_Norris Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 43
Quote:

It's a little more than just "political" ...




My comment was directed at the matter of Yoshokai versus Yoshinkan; the former is the North-American organization of Takashi Kushida, who left the Yoshinkan organization for essentially politcal matters. While I was only in the area for a few years after that, the underlying pedagogy and techniques were not at issue. He was well established in the Japanese organization (hachidan, to say nothing of the whole moving your family to Detroit thing) at the time.

I would also agree with one of the previous posters regarding the pedagogy - though I would perhaps say 'systematic' versus 'robotic', eh? One can learn French by moving to Paris or be taking some classes, to each their own.

RN

Top
#319524 - 02/02/07 05:57 PM Re: Yoshokai Aikido and Self Defense [Re: xuzen_628]
tomh777 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Metro Detroit
Thanks for the insight. The info is helpful. I just finished looking at some jiyu waza video's on youtube. Clearly, yoshinkan in the context of Jiyu Waza isn't a "step by step thingy."

Thanks

Top
#319525 - 02/03/07 09:37 PM Re: Yoshokai Aikido and Self Defense [Re: Richard_Norris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I meant the methodology of instruction, not the pedigree of the instruction. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Yoshinkan is definitely taught with more regimented methods than what I've been around, and I certainly have no notions of disputing Shioda Sensei's ability. I have no knowledge of the sensei you spoke of, so I have no opinion in that regard... but my comments about "more than political" were directed at the teaching methods. Sorry if I was misunderstood.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

Top
#319526 - 02/04/07 08:31 PM Re: Yoshokai Aikido and Self Defense [Re: wristtwister]
tomh777 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Metro Detroit
Takashi Kushida was the uchideshi for Gozo Shioda for 10 years. In 1991 he broke away from the Yoshinkan to form Yoshokai Aikido. The world headquarters for Yoshokai is at the Genyokan in Ann Arbor Michigan. I've included the link to the headquarters in case you're interested in finding out more of a sister style to yoshinkai.

aikidoyoshokai.org

Top
#319527 - 02/04/07 10:51 PM Re: Yoshokai Aikido and Self Defense [Re: tomh777]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
The techniques and much of the pinning technique matches ours exactly. The clips showed a couple we haven't used in a long time (stepover pin), but it's all familiar and good stuff.

I especially appreciated the picture that came up with the uke flying... THAT's Aikido... All this other stuff is just "messin' around"...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga