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#318621 - 01/28/07 12:22 PM Let's go technical!!
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Ok guys, you sloppy and lazy boxers and kickboxers. This forum has been so damn quiet it's getting on my nerves. So we are going to heat it up A LOT! Let's go technical!!

We are going to pick a technique and dissect it. I'll start with it's history, application, usage and then for advanced usage. I might include how to defend it, but if it's a secret technique then I won't reveal it. (You know, it's always best to be the only one with the "edge")

Technique of the week; Shovel hooks.

Made famous by Rocky Marciano for topling heavyweight boxers in in-fighting. Using this techniques he could box down people who were 2-3 times bigger than he was.

Application (For right-handed boxers);
Standing in south-paw (the prefered position in in-fighting). Keep your elbows pressed against your ribs while tucking your chin behind your fists to form a barrier between your body and opponent. To perform the shovel hook, lean slightly to your right as if dodging a straight, and instead of dropping your lead hand to like an uppercut, make your fist in a 45 degree angle and then rotate your hip while at the same time turning your body in the opposite direction of your opponent. Your lead hand should be going up like an uppercut without needing to drop your arms or defense. The stronger the turning action of your hip and shoulder, the more powerful the thrust with the lead hand will be.

This technique is one of my favorite. It's very defensive in nature, doesn't require you to open up anything for attack, and is great while doing in combination. For example, doing 2 shovel hooks with your lead then instantly following it with a cross or rear elbow(for MT) is just morning glory).

This technique only disadvantage is that it can only be done in really close proximity. In boxing, this is THE weapon for short and bulky fighters. In MT, this can be countered with the clinch, but still, you do have the opportunity to screw up your opponent's clinch if you manage to deliver 2-3 of these before he is able to press his forearms on your collar bone.

For more advanced boxers; In orthodox; deliver 1-2 combination while on two, step forward with your rear leg to go into south-paw. As you're in south-paw, lean to your right and perform 2 shovel hooks aiming on the floating ribs and follow it with a cross to the solar plexus or chin. A killer combo!! This was one of the techniques done by both Rocky Marciano and... surprise! Myke Tyson.

Defense; If you are able (which is not often) to spot a pattern, or a habit of you opponent that favors the shovel hook there is one technique which can be done to defend against it. Blocking with your bicep is not a great idea as it will cause you to be unable to fight after a while. The first thing you'll do if you're caught in Orthodox and he's in south-paw, is to step back while at the same time "shuffling" (take a step back with your lead leg) your legs into south-paw. Then you'll use your rear hand/glove, to push down inside your opponent's elbow as he bends his arm, thus ruining the mechanism of a shovel hook. While he's still figuring out what happened, you're adviced to either use this opportunity to go into the clinch (MT & MMA) or follow with a jab to his face while on the inside, and quickly retreat out of range.

The shovel hooks is one of the rare techniques of Queensbury boxing, widely used during the early 50's and more or less forgotten until Tyson's reign. Most however credit Tyson for his uppercuts, but 80% of his uppercuts were either shovel hooks or bordering on shovel hooks (elbows tucked tight near the ribs, rear hand still protecting the face).

Next week; Russian hook.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#318622 - 01/28/07 05:54 PM Re: Let's go technical!! [Re: Taison]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
i love shovel hooks- I have no time for ranged fighting, i am strong and like to bully from close quarters (admittedly, savate assaut does not allow clinching, so tactics would change with different parameters- but I would still rely on up close and personal when I could).

The other great thing about the shovel hook is that it is what flat foots like me would describe as a 'forgiving' technique. By this I mean that, due to its compact nature, you can still generate a wallop even if your balance/stance is off, or caught in transition. If you look at Marciano and Tyson, they have very wide, solid stances, and this favours the punch IMO/E.
It is a great technique to have at instinctive level if you are fond of lateral movement to 'slip' charges, stromg straights, or big kicks. Kick comes in, lead leg steps to the outside, shift body weight and position, throw that bad boy into the ribs of your still travelling oponent. He may only fall for it once, or twice if your lucky, but it will in that time, knock a lot of momentum and enthusiasm out of their attacks, or just put em on the floor gasping full stop. you cant dislike a strike that gives you the power of an uppercut with greater coverage and a shade more range
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#318623 - 01/28/07 09:18 PM Re: Let's go technical!! [Re: Taison]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I like the shovel hook as well. Very powerful close-range technique. I train combos of those to the body to set up head strikes (if the SH doesn't work itself).
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#318624 - 01/29/07 12:58 AM Re: Let's go technical!! [Re: MattJ]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
The SH is a staple in my boxing game. No matter what art I'm practicing, the SH will always be present. It's really effective, and so few arts teach it's defense because they do not know this technique.

My areas are around the floating ribs. If I fought in a 5 minutes round, you'd see me do the SH around. . all the time?? I vary my techniques a lot but usually ends in a double SH, or a SH cross. It's good for training your opponent to keep a lower guard, thus facilitating headshots.

The SH is the only technique I'm really proud of as the normal thai boxer doesn't know this technique. The SH is purely a western invention, without any Asian influence whatsoever.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#318625 - 01/29/07 05:07 AM Re: Let's go technical!! [Re: Taison]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
taison, you mention that MT does not have the shovel hook as an established technique. i know that you have addressed the range putting you in danger of being put in a clinch, but do you/have you found the higher and more protruded guard of MT fighters leaves them more open to the technique?
i know we are talking generalities, but just curious as to your experiences with it/them.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#318626 - 01/29/07 09:38 AM Re: Let's go technical!! [Re: Cord]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Actually, yes, MT boxers are very vulnerable to the SH. It's a "killer" move against Thai boxers.

Their raised hands that facilitates faster jabs and more protection against kicks, doesn't help much against the SH. Their abdomen may be strong, but their ribs are still exposed.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#318627 - 01/29/07 09:46 AM Re: Let's go technical!! [Re: Taison]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I suspected that may be the case. From the minute amount of exposure to the art that I have, much of the protection of the thighs and torso seesm to come from the raising of the lead leg to intercept the striking leg with the boney surfaces of the shin and bent knee joint. I could see how a shovel hook could find its way through that fairly easily.

Cheers for the feedback- very helpfull for if we ever spar someday
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#318628 - 01/29/07 09:58 AM Re: Let's go technical!! [Re: Cord]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
You'll probably out-muscle me to the ground ^_^

I'm short and weigh only 85 kilograms. Not much muscle :P

The SH was one of the techniques employed by Kyokushin karate-ka in their fight in Bangkok. Well, it was performed from a low horse stance, but the basic is mainly the same. Was very effective. The MT boxer would try to clinch while at the same time receiving 1-2 hits which discouraged him and actually loosed his grip from the karate-ka.

One of the reason it's one of my staple techniques.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#318629 - 01/29/07 03:07 PM Re: Let's go technical!! [Re: Taison]
TaeKwonBoxer Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 140
Very nice post!! personally recieving a shovel hook is painful wether you block it or not, i love using it hate fighting someone who uses it well hahha can't wait for your follow up post!!

keep up the good work! lets revive this board!
_________________________
'Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the Attack.'--Sun Tzu

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#318630 - 02/01/07 12:20 PM Re: Let's go technical!! [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Was trying some combos earlier today, not really that "great" for boxing matches like the 1,2 shuffle, double SH but good for exercises. Oh, and I'm really insane about my right hand. It's like blessed from Lord Buddha himself so don't go asking "why does this guy persist on using his right hand all the time".


1.
From southpaw; Bob, SH and back sway. Tried it with my uncle. I would bob under his lead high hook, SH in the abdomen and then sway back out of range of his rear hook. After this his blind side will be exposed with you pretty much in balance. I decided just to use my rear hook on his ribs.

This is mostly for exercise. Rarely will anyone do a high hook.

2.
From southpaw; Lead jab, bob and rear body blow, finish off with either a double SH to the ribs or SH and Cross to chin.

Remember, the bob should be trained with a partner. Actually bob under his punch, not just bob because you want leverage for the punch. Remember! Boxing is OFFENSE+DEFENSE at the same time.

3. (One of my favorites during in-fighting)

In Orthodox; Your partner delivers a rear hook aimed at your abdomen. Tuck your lead elbow in close with your ribs and your chin tucked behind your glove and shoulder to perform a "shield" while with your rear leg move forward and deliver 2 SH right on his body. The choice of target is yours. I'd just go for my normal "solar plexus then chin".

This can be used to block a kick as well. After you do the "shield" grab his leg, move your rear leg front and smack the guy into oblivion and then just scoop away his leg to finish him off. Gawd I love Muay Thai.

4. "The Shovel Hook"
This is a straight to the matter, no nonsense technique which is very reckless and more or less very suprising.

In southpaw; Do the "shield" with your rear arm and duck to your right. As you do this let out a loud "humpf" or something to distract, and then with your lead arm, deliver two SH or SH + high hook.

Be careful, in boxing it is legal to use both gloves to push you if you're raising the "shield" at them. If you lose balance, a haymaker is inevitable.


These are just some punches I practice. 30 minutes a day. Daily. For the last 8 years.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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