FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 27 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
old1, Leonar, ManLar, Vimido, raya
22925 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ronin1966 3
futsaowingchun 3
GojuRyuboy13 2
swordy 1
AndyLA 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Recent Posts
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
10/22/14 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
The Karate punch
by Ronin1966
10/09/14 03:16 PM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Forum Stats
22925 Members
36 Forums
35582 Topics
432510 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#318184 - 01/26/07 08:31 AM Which came first: kata or bunkai
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Must be good for a fight.
Which came first: kata or bunkai
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 01/26/07 08:31 AM
View the results of this poll.

Top
#318185 - 01/26/07 08:49 AM Re: Which came first: kata or bunkai [Re: harlan]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Kata obviously. Bunkai is not an Okinawan term and was developed by some (not all) of the Japanese systems to explain uses for kata technique. Then migration of the term to the states and then from the states to Okinawa actually got some Okinawn's using the term.

Ignoring the development of the term Bunkai, all answers as to which came first are in the relm of science fiction. The seniors conspiciously did not document their systems and succeeded, nobody has any proof of the chicken or the egg of the issue.

pleasantly,
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

Top
#318186 - 01/26/07 08:52 AM Re: Which came first: kata or bunkai [Re: Victor Smith]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Pish posh, Victor. Wasn't asking for proof...just opinions.

Top
#318187 - 01/26/07 09:35 AM Re: Which came first: kata or bunkai [Re: harlan]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Harlan,

I WANT proof! <GRIN> because I really have no idea how this material evolved. If they really didn't originate the ideas, but borrowed them from the Chinese, then the kata would be first, technqiue) and application later or a close second.

In the case China technique is the core you have to go back a long ways to answer it.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

Top
#318188 - 01/26/07 09:43 AM Re: Which came first: kata or bunkai [Re: Victor Smith]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I disagree.

We are talking about the techniques not the exact term bunkai, right?

The techniques were developed first and then later the kata was formed as a way to pass these techniques along, in my opinion.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#318189 - 01/26/07 09:49 AM Re: Which came first: kata or bunkai [Re: BrianS]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Yes...the techniques. Chicken or egg: did kata evolve from techniques (assume folks considered them effective probably from having had to use them)...or did kata come first and techniques 'discovered' later via bunkai?

Top
#318190 - 01/26/07 10:30 AM Re: Which came first: kata or bunkai [Re: harlan]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
The way the question is worded, I agree with Victor. To have Bunkai implies that kata existed first. I actually agree with BrianS overall, though. The techniques existed long before kata did.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#318191 - 01/26/07 10:47 AM Re: Which came first: kata or bunkai [Re: harlan]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
I do not know but I wonder if kata might find it's origin in war dances and retelling stories of battle. Which came first? war and battles or the retelling of the story. For some the battle came first for others watching others do dances that recounted battle might inspire and begin to prepare them to face conflict themselves. People watching the re enactment of a battle done as folk dance may just see dance others with different experience see the story of the battle. I imagine there were even tribesmen that originated dances but had little or no experience in battle themselves.

Top
#318192 - 01/26/07 10:50 AM Re: Which came first: kata or bunkai [Re: oldman]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

I imagine there were even tribesmen that originated dances but had little or no experience in battle themselves.




Is that why kata doesn't work on the street?
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
#318193 - 01/26/07 11:49 AM Re: Which came first: kata or bunkai [Re: JoelM]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
now that will start a fight,lol

i'll throw this idea out....

as far as the chicken or the egg thing, i think that life had to have come around first in some form, as they are both forms of life. therefore, i believe that fighting was around befor either, and kata/bunkai came about as forms/ways of fighting.

harlen, what posessed you to start this??

yours in life
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

Top
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga