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#315292 - 02/12/08 05:15 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Let me ask you this ITF. In your throwing classes do you provide total resistance or do you allow yourself to be thrown so you can work on both your falling skills but also so your opponent can work on his throwing skills. Or perhaps you don't have days like this and maybe the example of sparring would be better. Do you allow our partner to kick you to try techniques out while you practice taking kicks and then switch or do you provide total resistance and not allow them to kick you?{/quote]

This is not what I am talking about. It only confuses the issue. Kindly stick to my 1 point.

Quote:

Remember we are talking training tools.






No, I am only talking about 1 tool, your 1 steps.
thats it.

Quote:

One-steps are a training tool and later you put them together in live training.




Of course they are. Now do you see any downside to the lack of a live opponent? yes or no

Quote:

All techniques must be nursed from learning to training to applying. You must understand and use with no resistance, light resistance, medium resistance and then full resistance. You must do each level with each learning tool; you must crawl before you walk and walk before you run.




Of course it does. Do you really think that I don't understand this? Now what does that have to do with my question? Its really a simple one, yes or no. It seems like you do see a downside, as you make a strong case for building on this tool, but won't acknowldege any downside.

The question remains unanswered.......

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#315293 - 02/12/08 05:23 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

No, I do not think there is a downside to this train; NONE WHAT SO EVER. I do however think if this was the only training that yes it would be but in the context of our curriculum that is is only a positive. Obviously since you cannot grasp this drill and what it can provide as an effective training tool then I won't try to waste any more time trying to explain to you as you are too narrow minded.

I do however see a downside to training only 1 attack and 1 defense because that is not realistic. However if this is trained with other tools in a curriculum then it can be a positive. Any tools used to work to one goal are useful but alone they are not.

So again, "NO" I see absolutely no downfall to this training. Does that answer your question? Does this suffice your thinking? Does it not make is so because the founder said it isn't or it isn't written in your encyclopedias?

Am I angered? Yes. Am I lashing out? Yes. I have answered you over and over but because I am not telling you what you want to hear you don't seem to be listening.




Thank you Sir for finally answering, even though you answered with more than 1 answer. I am also sorry that you are angry & lashing out at me. Since you don't see a downside I think we have taken this as far we can. Sorry for getting you angry. I don't understand why posting on a BB can get someone angry. Please understand it was never my intent. I am also sorry you took it that way.

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#315294 - 02/12/08 05:51 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: ITFunity]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
ITF, I am sorry too.

I truly feel that I was continually answering your question and that you just weren't getting it. I believe that any training cannot be defined by one tool and has to be defined by the overall curriculum. Understand I referenced other techniques to show a similarity only in what I was trying to get across. Also please understand I do believe whole heartedly that multiple attacks are a must and many techniques can be pulled off in a second or so; and our one-steps are possible against a less skilled person or you take advantage of the precious time you have to react to a situation. These same skills work in other situation such as if somebody were to grab my lapel, the amount of time to grab their wrist and to sweep them to the ground while at the same time keeping my grasp on their arm and then breaking it against my knee; only a few seconds and possible. Of course the element of surprise is best and you must be precise in your technique; and why these are trained. Tools like this give you "things that can be done" but don't mean the all can be done. It keeps your mind open to possibilities and the more they are done the easier they will get.

Not to stray this but I will use another example in our training. We practice the guillotine with an unresisting opponent so they know what it feels like when it is on and you know how to apply it. We do this from standing, on our knees and on the ground from their back and from our back; because a guillotine is a guillotine no matter what position. Then we work with resistance and it is even harder to do especially as they are expecting it. You are encouraged to use these skills when free rolling not just on this day but other days, and even on self defense days. I recently joined Judo to supplement my training and while grappling with a brown belt his head was in the position and I put him in the guillotine, took him to my back and wrapped my legs around him tapping him out within a second. Because we had practiced this drill from no resistance to light to full I am able to understand this technique and see it when it presents itself and able to apply it. I feel the same way with our one-steps. And again as noted much earlier, in a grappling competition I was able to do most of One-Step #3 that involved grabbing of the wrist, stepping in and then sweeping my opponent. The only things missing were the strike of the punch in the beginning and the elbow break to my knee plus a punch in the face; though if it was self defense I felt I could have easily performed those as well.

Again I'm sorry we did not understand each other and I hope that this doesn't ruin any further discussions in the future.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#315295 - 02/13/08 01:31 AM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Well I think I understood you from early on. If you review our posts, you will even see that I repeated your points. It was me that was not able to get you to grasp or respond to my 1 point that I was trying to get you to address.

I always look forward to any exchange of info & opportunites to kick around ideas. It is a sign of my empty life. LOL

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#315296 - 02/13/08 06:39 AM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: ITFunity]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
I appreciate that the exchange has stayed civil even though there were clearly periods of frustration and misunderstanding. Thank you gentleman.
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#315297 - 04/03/08 12:18 AM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

As for one-steps, I wasn't saying they should be the same but at standardization would be a good idea, you can at least agree with that coming from an ITF school.




No way, no how, never!
The ITF 1 steps are not standardized. The way they start is. For example, both attacker & defender stand i/f/o each other, in a pararell ready stance, at a distance pre-determined by the attacker, depending on the attack to be used. The attack is done from this position, without going back into a walking stance with low block & attacks with any & all attacks are allowed, not just a punch with the right forefist. You can only do 1 attack & 1 counterattack. There are examples of this in the Encylopedia, but they are just that. Our 1 steps are a SD drill, where the attacker must try to hit the defender, with all available attacks. In the case of all step sparring, 1, 2 & 3 steps, as a student advances, the attacks should be more spontaneous & realistic.




We differ on this then. I feel that if you are under one banner then there should be a standardization of what is taught from one school to the next so that when tested you can test anywhere or train anywhere; much like the ITF can.

Our one-steps the two stand across from each other with one attacking and one defending. The defender uses multiple defenses starting with easy ones such as block/striking the punch while at the same time punching them in the jaw. The higher you get the more intense they get including sweeping, tripping, takedowns, arm breaks, knees, etc. Number 3 would be a block/strike to the attacker's punching arm, while punching them in the jaw, then grabbing the wrist, stepping into the opponent so your hips are parallel, then pull wrist and sweep with your leg; when they hit the ground you turn the arm so their elbow is against your knee to simulate a break of the arm and then you punch them again in the face. At colored belt there are 9. At 1st Dan then you learn 26 self defense moves, at 2nd Dan you learn more and so on.

The attacker is not just throwing their arm out but are trying to punch the defender in the jaw and is stressed the higher you get up. If you don't move then you get hit and you learn really fast.

All one-steps are for self defense.



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#315298 - 04/03/08 02:15 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: ITFunity]
dicen Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 57
Ok lets change topics a bit, I have seen one steps both from many TKD schools, showing black belts doing natobans(sp?) and jumping spinning hook kicks in one steps.

1) Who here would attempt a natoban or a jumping spinning hook kick in a SD situation?

2) Give a reason why you would or wouldn't.

3) PLz keep it civil :P

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#315299 - 04/03/08 04:25 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: dicen]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
1) Keep to the basics; basics win most fights; I would not use this.

2) I would never try to pull of something fancy let alone turn my back on my opponent for a fraction of a second or leave the ground; far too risky.

3) Very civil.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#315300 - 04/03/08 05:06 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: dicen]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

1) Who here would attempt a natoban or a jumping spinning hook kick in a SD situation?
2) Give a reason why you would or wouldn't.




First I wouldn't because I can't, don't have that talent!

Now #1 above. I think some students may. Isn't the concensus here that we react the way we are trained? So if you see them doing spinning jump kicks, I would venture a guess that they would attempt to try it. Hopefully other areas of their training & the guidance of a qaulified instructor, this will be corrected. Now we do fancy stuff, but they are not in a drill we call 1 steps. It would be by BBs & its purpose would to be just that, FANCY, for demo & shows. We call that model sparring, as the attacker isn't a live opponent, but simply a model posing for the defender so they can look good showing off fancy techniques in a demo type setting.
#2 above, in addition to the lack of talent, I wouldn't try it as it is not realistic for SD, IMHO

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#315301 - 04/06/08 07:13 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: ITFunity]
dicen Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 57
what about doing a spinning back kick? Sure you turn your back on your opponent but its a very powerful kick that is you land it, the attacker will be badly hurt.

Competition wise same thing, a spinngin back kikc can break the ribs and knock you out of the competition.

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