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#315272 - 02/12/08 10:11 AM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

From my own sorted past of fighting when younger and into my young adult hood; even to MMA, one counter never happens.




Sir, no one in this entire discussion ever said this, but you, as you look to avoid my question. Very frustrating indeed.

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#315273 - 02/12/08 10:15 AM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

We are not limited by the founder as you yourself are. I certainly can respect your point of view however if we take this to a realistic look, the one counter in my mind holds no value;.......




Niether are we. By continuing to reply this way is just avoiding my question that you still will not address & have flat out said you wouldn't even consider trying to experiemnt with in 1 small aspect of your training.

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#315274 - 02/12/08 10:22 AM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

It is possible to get off more then one technique, and again for our one-steps after being punched with in a second I will have thrown multiple attacks that "are" possible.




Well Sir I think if you would consider what I am saying & reply to just this point as I have asked numerous times, maybe we could move this discussion forward.

WHAT do you THINK your opponent, not use of opponent, not partner who I know tries to really hit you at 1st, but then is not allowed to continue to hit you, as they are no longer a live attacker, will be DOING while the defender counters with mutiple attacks?

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#315275 - 02/12/08 10:31 AM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: Dereck]
EarlWeiss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 322
>>>We are not limited by the founder as you yourself are. I certainly can respect your point of view however if we take this to a realistic look, the one counter in my mind holds no value; please let me explain.<<

If you consider one element of almost any training system in isolation you can say it has little or no value. Why should a boxer jump rope or hit a speed bag? Neither simulate what happens in the ring.

Before saying a single element of training has no value it must be viewed in the context of all training elements within a system.

The Chang Hon 1 step sparring is just such an element, one of many within a system. Now, while it is, on the surface used to develop the "One technique for Victory" theory espoused by General Choi and Funakoshi before him there are some who feels the qoute is an oversimplification of this ideal.

I subscribe to the broader view that a better translation is "One opportunity for victory" .

This is different because while multiple techniques or tactics may be employed to accomplish victory, if that one opportunity presents itself where you can employ a single technique, having honed your skills thru one step sparring you can then secure victory with the single technique.

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#315276 - 02/12/08 10:35 AM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

I think that you are getting hung up on that you are able to do one counter to a vital spot and end things and that unfortunately is not realistic;




I agree with you, so please stop using this to avoid the issue. I never said or implied this at all. I am talking about what occurs after the 1st counter attack by the initial attacker.

Quote:

.......it can work but more then likely it won't and why multiple attacks is far better. And again, your purpose as set by your founder for your one-steps is not the same as our purpose for our one-steps, and that is where I think the confusion is coming from and again we are not comparing apples to apples.




So please Sir stop confusing the issue by injecting this. I know the purposes are different. We established that awhile back. Our purpose is to establish initial protection & concentration on just 1 effective counterattack, not because that will or should end the fight, because it might not, but to develop effectiveness in a beginner before they work with combos. Your purpose seems to be to help develop combos, which is great. Now please address my ONLY ISSUE which is:
What do you think the attacker will be doing when the defender counters with mutiple counters?

[Quote]Again, enjoy this discussion.




Yes Sir, I am also. I hope now you can reply to my 1 issue & keep it to apples only & not bringing any oranges into the conversation. I like oranges, but want to talk only apples!

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#315277 - 02/12/08 11:14 AM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: ITFunity]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
ITFunity, are you referring to the grafting of one 1 step technique to another and the contiuation of such until you have subdued the attacker/assailant?

I can see both sides of the conversation and see that each has a benefit. When one steps are practiced properly, they should give you a viable arsenal of techniques to string together in response to a rapid succession of attacks. If practiced enough, they should be committed to muscle memory and flow when the attack begins. I think this may be what you are getting at. If I am worng, please let me know.

Dereck, I also see your point that when things get hairy and the assailant just lets loose with everything, technique goes out the window and reaction takes over. Taking the fight from your assailant by reversing the momentum through rapid, unrelenting, agressive striking and grappling is a good way to make sure you wind up last man standing.

Both argumnts have a basis in fact and both are essentially saying the same thing but from different perspectives. Once again, if I am interpretting the discussion wrong, let me know but that is how I see it. Same outcome but two different methods of getting there.

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#315278 - 02/12/08 01:37 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: ITFunity]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

This is not only confusing the issue, but not at all. You still refuse to respond to my 1 narrow aspect that I wish you to address. I guess that says something. I can't figure out why you won't reply. Vert frustrating to say the least.




ITF I feel I have replied to this over and over. What am I missing? What don't YOU understand?

You want me to try 1 attack and 1 defense ... DONE. This is done within our system and is a part of or curriculum however unlike you we do not call it one-step sparring, it is just another training tool. Obviously you are having a hard time getting around that your one-step sparring is different then our one-step sparring; get over it already and drop the attitude because attitude is what you will get back.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#315279 - 02/12/08 01:39 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: ITFunity]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

Sir, no one in this entire discussion ever said this, but you, as you look to avoid my question. Very frustrating indeed.




I am not avoiding your question but feel I have answered it. However you and I seem to not understand each other very well and so for our sake, what is your question and I will answer it in one thread and you will have to accept what I'm saying and try to understand it, although I feel I've answered it.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#315280 - 02/12/08 01:41 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: ITFunity]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

Niether are we. By continuing to reply this way is just avoiding my question that you still will not address & have flat out said you wouldn't even consider trying to experiemnt with in 1 small aspect of your training.




Again I must explain that this IS trained we just don't call it one-step sparring like you do. We have several training tools that do not have names but are good training tools. Again, your one-step sparring is not our one-step sparring so stop trying to compare apples to oranges just because they are called the same name.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#315281 - 02/12/08 01:47 PM Re: Does any one here train in WTF Tae Kwon Do [Re: ITFunity]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

Quote:

It is possible to get off more then one technique, and again for our one-steps after being punched with in a second I will have thrown multiple attacks that "are" possible.




Well Sir I think if you would consider what I am saying & reply to just this point as I have asked numerous times, maybe we could move this discussion forward.

WHAT do you THINK your opponent, not use of opponent, not partner who I know tries to really hit you at 1st, but then is not allowed to continue to hit you, as they are no longer a live attacker, will be DOING while the defender counters with mutiple attacks?




ITF, if somebody who has ill intent were to throw a punch at me I would respond with multiple attacks and many of those attacks will be to vital areas. Here is what can happen.

1. He is stunned that somebody would attack him and doesn't know what to do. While he is thinking that he may have an emotion dump or he may become frightened himself. In any case I WILL get off multiple attacks as this only takes a few seconds and that IS practical. He then will be a bloody and incapacitative mess at my feet.

OR

2. He becomes riles and enraged and it is a full on battle royal with the fight going either his way or my way.


I should point out that this is the same outcome as if I had done "1" defensive techniques.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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