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#314804 - 01/18/07 11:47 AM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: drgndrew]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Drew -

Thanks very much for posting those polls and tabulating the results. Very interesting. I was a bit suprised how close the general public viewed those scenarios compared to martial artists - although I shouldn't be.

Starts to make me understand some of the idiotic jury results I have seen over the years.

Great job!
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#314805 - 01/18/07 11:22 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: Midnightcrawler]
IRKguy Offline

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 56
The guy without the knife didn't run for two reasons: he was angry, drunk, stupid, and aggressive, and he didn't see the knife until the trial had started. Maybe that's five reasons. Anyway, if I were defending my life and had a knife on me, the attacker would never see the knife either unless I left it in him. A threat is a gift to the enemy. The difference between me and the defendant is that in my case the state's witness wouldn't see the knife in court either. It would be in a river or a dumpster.

However, it could have gone another way. I've seen a jury convict a man of aggrivated assault for breaking a man's arm with a baseball bat and then running away. He broke the man's arm because it that arm was holding a machete that the state's witness was swinging at people while the state's witness' wife was throwing bottles at the defendant's friends. Of course, the defendant had an MS13 tattoo on his forehead, so that may have influenced the jury.

The definition of assault almost doesn't matter when you are facing a jury. Juries do strange things. When you face a judge, you are facing the law of your state. When you face a jury, you are dealing with what 12 people not smart enough to get out of jury duty think is a reasonable way to behave in your county. In the machete matter, one question that came up was how close the nearest baseball diamond was. One way to look good for a jury long before any SD situation occurs is to live a normal life. Just seeming like a decent person rather than a thug makes a huge difference. Also, think about what weapons you carry. Do any of them seem unnecessarily ugly or strange? If you zap someone with pepper spray, your odds will be much better than if you knock him out with chucks. If you slash someone with a Buck knife in the South, your odds will be much better than if you whip out a balisong or gravity knife, though with practice a Buck knife is faster than either of those. Juries are not rational, and my vote took that into account.

BTW, if you warn him that you have a knife, you have threatened him, which is already assault. If you even try to cut him after that, it is aggrivated assault with a deadly weapon. If you show it to him, you are brandishing, another felony. If you just whip it out and get slashy, you are defending yourself in a panic situation, if you have the right lawyer, which this guy had.

Your milage may vary.

#314806 - 01/19/07 02:23 AM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: Ronin1966]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia

Hello Drgndrew

How is/was assault defined? Was more testimony presented than merely the video one assumes?


This was purely a hypothetical scenario, any similarity between it and another real life or fictional is purely coincidental. Do they still put that on the end of movies?

The definition of assault can vary from state to state and even within the law of the state there will be different kinds of assault so it may vary depending where you are and what kind of assault is being charged. One of the reasons I didn't provide a specific definition or any more info was to allow people to use the meaning they have at the moment. Ie it allowed an indication of the current level of understanding of the law pertaining to the situation ( I'm sure i could have said that in a more concise way.

Either way prior to the jury go off to deliberate the judge will address the jury and provide definitions and explain any laws that are relevant to the case.
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

#314807 - 01/21/07 05:20 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: drgndrew]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
My point since I deal with criminal complaints all the time, is based on the knowledge that even video can be misleading. You can't "know" what actually happened and what someone's intentions were in spite of their actions seen on a "video".

I still say "it depends".

I'm no fun. I know. Sorry.

#314808 - 02/05/07 02:24 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: Fletch1]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
So if you saw "I do not want to fight!", keep backing up, then when they pursue, nail em out of nowhere good and hard, and then leave, you are good to go most likely?
What if you say something like "if you attack me i will hurt you"?
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon:,

#314809 - 02/05/07 06:17 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: Stormdragon]
Dedicated1 Offline

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
That would most likely be taken as a challenge, or a threat. Your better off saying " I am not looking for trouble", or something along those lines.
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

#314810 - 02/05/07 06:30 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: Dedicated1]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
What a screwed up justice system, sheesh, it's a warning to enable self protection. Oh well, they got issues.
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon:,

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