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#314784 - 01/13/07 10:11 PM Your a member of the jury
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Imagine you view footage: one man is constantly moving into the personal space of another, his body language is aggressive and domineering. the other man is backing up with his hands raised in as passive posture. After a moment the second man suddenly strikes the aggressive one with the heel of his palm straight into his chin, knocking him off his feet. The striker quickly backs away moving off camera.

There are witnesses most of them say there was an argument and that guy knocked the other down. but one or two of them said they heard the man, who struck, say several times that he didn't want to fight.

You're a member of the jury, keeping in mind reasonable doubt, do you vote the man guilty of assault, or do you except his claim the he acted preemptively in self defence.
I'm just curious as to the results.

Feel free to remain anonymous, but please be honest in your choice.
.
guilty or not guilty of assault
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 01/13/07 10:09 PM
View the results of this poll.


Edited by drgndrew (01/13/07 10:15 PM)
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
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#314785 - 01/13/07 10:25 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: drgndrew]
Mr_Heretik Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bronx NY, USA
I voted not guilty. I am a bit biased, but from what the witnesses said and what is shown... the second man was defending himself.

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#314786 - 01/14/07 07:33 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: drgndrew]
Midnightcrawler Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 184
Loc: England
Looks like you are getting the results which could be statistically expected on an MA forum. It might be more interesting, and accurate to ask the same question of the 'general public' rather than on a MA forum as there will be a tendency towards less bias.

You know my thoughts anyway

MC.
_________________________
God only knows; Really.

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#314787 - 01/14/07 08:24 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: drgndrew]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Interesting poll, Drew. I admit with my SD training and the evidence as presented, I would vote "not guilty". That might change if -

* I didn't know anything about SD

* Lawyers or witnesses seemed to prove otherwise.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#314788 - 01/14/07 10:14 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: Midnightcrawler]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Thanks for the responses so far.

More information would be needed and provided in an actual court case, but Base your judgement on just the info provided, it is true that in an actual court case you will be presented with a couple of hours of testimony. But I thought I'd save you from that.

Quote:

Looks like you are getting the results which could be statistically expected on an MA forum. It might be more interesting, and accurate to ask the same question of the 'general public' rather than on a MA forum as there will be a tendency towards less bias.

You know my thoughts anyway

MC.




exactly what I thought
so I've posted it on 3 other SD/MA forums on a dog breeders forum, an aussie car forum and the Traci Harding "Trazling" site (fantasy/scifi readers may know who that is)

let you know what happens
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#314789 - 01/15/07 12:29 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: drgndrew]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Voted not guilty, he warned the attacker twice and felt he was going to be assaulted, a threatning situation.

I have jury duty 2/26/07 !!
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#314790 - 01/15/07 02:27 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: schanne]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Not guilty. Firstly, he backed off. Secondly, he put up a fence, indicating he did not want a confrontation. Thridly, he stated (by some accounts) that he did not want to fight. Fourthly and most importantly he did not indicate that he wanted to fight or harm his opponent by continuing to fight after the initial strike. If he had wanted to fight or harm his opponent, he would have kicked him while he was lying on the floor. Finally, he left the scene after the incident, indicating that he was concerned primarily about his personal safety and not about causing harm to other people.

I want to see the results of this poll when you get them back from the other forums.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#314791 - 01/15/07 02:54 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: drgndrew]
Eternal_Student Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 59
I have heard from many a martial arts instructor that you should ALWAYS loudly yell out "I don't want to fight" when in an altercation (in order to get the witnesses to report this in the event of an actual fight). I should also note that a bully who starts fights could do the same thing (so, saying "I don't wanna fight is NOT always definitive when assessing one's true intentions).

In order to vote on this fact pattern, I need more info (such as whether either of those involved has a history of violent acts/ fights, the level of fight training the striker has- is he a martial arts master, where he may have had more options other than a palm-heel strike, and the amount of damage done to the other party)

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#314792 - 01/15/07 03:13 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: Eternal_Student]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Bear in mind that during an altercation, we can not expect even the most experienced martial arts master to have the time to weigh the level of force required precisely. Hence, some leeway should be given to account for the threatening nature of the situation. In UK self defense law, the general principle is:

Quote:

If there has been an attack so that defence is reasonably necessary, it will be recognised that a person defending himself cannot weigh to a nicety the exact measure of his defensive action. If the jury thought that in a moment of unexpected anguish a person attacked had only done what he honestly and instinctively thought necessary, that would be the most potent evidence that only reasonable defensive action had been taken.




http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section5/chapter_c.html#14
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#314793 - 01/15/07 05:14 PM Re: Your a member of the jury [Re: drgndrew]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
If this case ended up in a court room, then the man defending must have seriously injured or killed the aggressor. If your pre-emptive strike leaves no long lasting effects, you won't be in a court room. So don't kick out their knee, and don't punch them in the throat. If your trapped with no where to go, and the aggressor is not responding to verbal communication, a groin strike or a front kick to the stomach to gain access to safety would suffice. You would never see a court room with a jury.
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If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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