exactly. salutation or formalization prior and after demonstrating forms is just that.

the more elaborate ones get more points for showing 'more respect' to judges, no doubt. I like the ones that are so elaborate, it looks like they have started the form already.

flippant answer aside the simple bow and starting position is traditional at least since the time karate was so named...older Chinese forms seem less formal in this regard, so the Okinawan forms probably formalized with Japan influence in the 20th c. but I'm guessing.

well, to be a nit picky jerk, no one was talking about the bow as an application.

the point i was making is that the move from the initial begining position to the next technique could be studied for posible applications.

chen is always right in one sense, no matter how arrogant he seems when making his point. there are other things to study that may warrent more attention to some. but the question was asked and answered, and besides i thought you had left the disgracefull kata for dead after the 21 page roast??

the ready position does mean "ready". and maybe that is the best answer to give to a student who is learning, but don't dismiss it as simply this or that, bruce lee would be shamed to think that you boxed your self into a limiting frame of mind.

yours in life

I may be going to the extreme a little, but, surely the bow has an application??? Perhaps from a front choke; a double wrist grab going into headbutt. Just a thought.

Ads, have you been taught any applications for these opening moves?

[sacasm]
or a bow could be a headbutt! of course...how could I have missed it! lol

now I have to go work on applications for my handshake kata....probably some finger locks in there.
[/sarcasm]

My interpretation of ready position is....ready position.

I know that in Japan a bow is a sign of respect/a greeting. I believe that it is the same way in China. I can only assume that it is the same on Okinawa (where many of the forms started) and in Korea.

Am I correct in this assumption? If so would it not be the same as (or at least very similar to) the salute of one soldier to another?

When I want to execute a kata to the best of my abilities for that moment, the entire 'get ready' formals get a very deep 'spiritual' meaning. In a sense of me and my surrounding and firing up all my senses. You feel the adrenaline, you are in touch with your breathing and feel every muscle. You are aware of your surrounding and are focused. The only thing missing is fear.
This is in my opinion the function of the 'get ready' formalities. Once you are focused and ready to fight, you are a formidable adversary because you intent not to lose. This mental state is far more important than knowing wrist locks, finger locks or head butts from the ready position.
In training over and over the kata, the ready formalities tend to be neglected as you want to focus on technique, or speed or stance but if you want to execute a kata where body / mind and spirit work in unity in absence of concious thaught coordinated with the breathing, the ready position is intigral part of executing the kata.
Sanchin kata teaches this.
But i must confess, I am not always ready when training kata.

Hello Chen Zen:

<<Is there always some secretive interpretation?

When I invent the thing being examined I shall let you know!
The kata I was given are entirely functional movements with excellent reasons for precision whatever the particular positions/sequences might be...



<<Cant ready position just mean "ready"?

They could but that would be awfully boring... yet some would contend they are pure & exclusively symbolism. If I were able to show you a usage for a particular "ready" position would you consider/explore it???

<<There are so many other things of greater value to explore.

What did you have in mind sire???????

I enjoy taking apart the small pieces, examining them and reexamining them see what ~shakes loose~ in that process. It may take months, sometimes years remembering hey we never finished that piece well... looks similar to what were just doing... wonder if we use this idea on that piece if it would work, answer the problem we had back then...

The joy is in the exploration...

Jeff