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#312878 - 01/07/07 04:07 PM Re: Defense Against Dog Attack [Re: jonnyboxcutter]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
That is really vague. Same thing as if I was walking round the corner and I see a guy holding another in a head-lock. Who's mugging who? Who am I supposed to help?

What I would do is deduce what is going on. Are you keeping the dog down so he won't attack you or are you abusing it. Then I would see who's the biggest threat in this situation. Most of all, I would look at the expression of both parties. If the dog is struggling for air and isnt fighting back while yours is more like you're holding him up and intentionally trying to kill it, I would go on the dog's side.

JCB, dogs are animals, so are we. They are domesticated, and are only dangerous when not handled with care. People get attacked because they do things which they shouldn't. How would you feel if someone came up to you and started patting you on the head? Some would laugh. If any grown up came up to me and started patting me on the head and start doing odd sounds, I would punch them in the face. Same thing with some dogs, they will bite because they get annoyed.

Ok, some dogs are trained to guard their "territory". Imagine you take the dog away from his "territory" and put him into a new environment, ie, your lawn without a leash. A kid walks in and runs towards your dog with arms open. For the dog, the kid is intruding his new "territory" and reacting on what it was trained, intruders must be stopped. Deducing that the kid looks hostile because of the kid's running towards the dog with open arms and maybe yelling something like "doggy", the dog may think the kid is trying to look fierce. The result? The kid will get attacked. Is it the dog's fault? or his training? or the kid? or the owner's?

The only time you should be hitting your dog is under dire circumstances. When it does something wrong, you can hit it to instill discipline. But hit it so hard you injure it or hit it for the sake of fun, that is no longer disciplinary, it's called abuse.

JBC, you can try to argue the life out of you, but dogs are not dangerous. If you know how to treat them, they won't attack anyone. If you keep them under control, and people don't do stupid things the dog won't attack.

You can call me irrational, but I have never been known for being rational. Wild assumptions? At least I got researched information, unlike somebody.

Like I said on my first post. I like canines more than I like people. Their nature is more simple yet almost as complex as ours.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#312879 - 01/07/07 04:16 PM Re: Defense Against Dog Attack [Re: Cord]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Cord, you got to teach me English some day. Man, I'm finding it hard to express myself these days.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#312880 - 01/07/07 04:51 PM Re: Defense Against Dog Attack [Re: Taison]
jonnyboxcutter Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 320
Quote:

If I ever see any dog owner hit there dog on the street, I will beat him up so badly he wont dare to lay his hand on the canine again.




Quote:

I don't care if I'm wrong. I rather be wrong and happy. You however, would be right and regret being right.




Quote:

you'd wish I never got infuriated. I dont really care if I'm wrong or not.




Quote:

You'll wish you'd never meet me when you're hitting your dog infront of me. Trust me, when my fuse goes off, I dont stop until the other person is on the ground knocked out. I wouldn't care if I was wrong or not.




Quote:

I have to agree. I might be throwing hands, but you wouldn't. I wouldn't walk up to you and tell you to stop it. I would initiate the attack before you knew what hit you.




Quote:

I have been charged with assault, but the dog owner did get his dog taken away so I'm happy to pay the fine.




Quote:

this is who I am and this is reality




Sorry man but I don’t see any researched information in any of this. I do however see a ton of irrationality.

The situation that I posted was exactly what you would have seen. There was no yelling no noise and the dog would not have survived the encounter if I did not let go.

This is what happened:

I took my 2 year old to Grandmas (my mom) house. She had the Dalmatian and it was hands down the best dog I have ever had the pleasure to interact with. She happened to be sleeping on the floor and the 2 y/o was walking and fell on top of the dog. The dog (sleeping) reacted as expected. I managed to throw a front kick as the dog tried to bite the kid. I was fortunate in that the front kick hit the dog before the dog got the kid.

Yes, it was NOT the dogs fault. Yes it was justified in its response. Was I going to let the dog bite my kid HELL NO!! would the dog have live more than 2 seconds if it did get her absolutely not. Judging by your above post you would have knocked me out – you are right I would not have seen you coming, sorry I was a bit distracted. But seriously, do you blame me? It was an accident, nobody was at fault, cant really blame the 2 y/o (there is a reason their called toddlers), the dog –cant blame her she was asleep – I have reacted in a similar manner when I was woke up the way wrong way.

-edit-
Like I said would you blame me in the situation – father reacting. I wouldn’t blame you in a similar situation (Not sure if you have kids or not but if you do I would assume you can understand my reaction)
-edit

I would like to explain the dog a bit:
Very well trained, with parallel voice/hand signals. This gave us the ability to maintain control as long as we had visual contact with the dog. One time we where at the farm and I asked her to sit/stay. She sat there and I eventually forgot about her, when I looked back she had urinated but did not move. The point here is that she did what she was told until she was told different. She really was an amazing dog. The person that helped train her initially said that there is no such thing as a good Dalmatian (he really did not like them). After this dog he changed his mind – she always went to events with the dog school and was always a hit. She was awesome around kids and never had any issues before or after this.

-JBC-


Edited by jonnyboxcutter (01/07/07 04:58 PM)
_________________________
-- -JBC-

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#312881 - 01/07/07 04:52 PM Re: Defense Against Dog Attack [Re: Cord]
jonnyboxcutter Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 320
Cord, look up the word “anthropomorphism”. People do not equal dogs.
Your question
Quote:

would you give your wife a slap if you felt 'she deserved it?' as well?



is a bit misplaced and not really relevant to the conversation.

-JBC-
_________________________
-- -JBC-

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#312882 - 01/07/07 05:33 PM Re: Defense Against Dog Attack [Re: Coach_Melvin]
Shorinjiryumike Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 250
First things first!

If you have never been bitten by a dog you lack the subjectve experience to understand what an attack is like.

Secondly, if you have been bitten you already know you couldn't defend yourself.

There is no way that any person can defend themselves against a determined Pitbull or Rottweiler attack. Anyone who thinks they can is fooling themselves.




In my humble opinion.


Edited by Shorinjiryumike (01/07/07 05:51 PM)

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#312883 - 01/07/07 05:51 PM Re: Defense Against Dog Attack [Re: Taison]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
<<In Thailand we have millions of stray dogs, and there is almost no case of these dogs ever attacking humans.>>

The opposite is the case because I've lost count the times I've seen 'soi dogs' been abused, kicked, hit with broom handles etc, breaks my heart to see those mangy dogs get beat.
I have never moved so fast when walking to a spot on the river to fish near my inlaws home in Pakkret, walked down a ramp to the river ajecent to a house when two Dobermans came running at me unleashed at great speed at me, thankfully the owner heard the commotion and called them off, just in time. A similar thing happened to me on Koh Samui when I was riding a motorbike in the hills, two Dobermans lept over a fence and legged it for me. It was only down to my motorised wheels I got away unscathed because nobody from the house came to rescue me this time!
_________________________
"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#312884 - 01/07/07 05:52 PM Re: Defense Against Dog Attack [Re: grumbleweed]
Shorinjiryumike Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 250
I too love the smell of Tom Yum in the morning!


Edited by Shorinjiryumike (01/07/07 05:53 PM)
_________________________
Shorinjiryumike GKD

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#312885 - 01/07/07 06:18 PM Re: Defense Against Dog Attack [Re: jonnyboxcutter]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Cord, look up the word “anthropomorphism”. People do not equal dogs.





No I agree totaly, in my experience people do struggle to equal dogs.

In your example, I am sceptical that you could react and have a foot travel faster than a suprised dog could turn and nip something laying on it.

Knowing the dog, and knowing that the attack if successful would not have been malicious or prolongued,and acknowledging the exemplary character of the dog, and that the situation was your childs fault, I am interested as to your rational for killing the dog in those circumstances?
Maybe preventing a child from 'toddling' near a sleeping dog would have been a better idea all round?.

interesting that Taison and I both approach dogs as equals, acknowledging both human and dogs as animals with instincts that can learn to work together, and have had no negative occurences with dogs, yet you post of hitting, throttling, and forgetting about dogs till they are in such discomfort as to foul themselves, and you have numerous stories of bad experiences.

Correlation per chance?
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#312886 - 01/07/07 09:04 PM Re: Defense Against Dog Attack [Re: Cord]
jonnyboxcutter Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 320
Quote:

Maybe preventing a child from 'toddling' near a sleeping dog would have been a better idea all round?.



You know what else would be a good idea? Asking for clarification. If this would have been done you would have found some things out that may have altered your opinion, who knows…

Quote:

I am interested as to your rational for killing the dog in those circumstances?



If this is a serious question, I am either dealing with a child or and adult that is mentally on par with one when animals are concerned. You are missing some basic understandings that force me to end our conversation (FYI your question was answered in my post – look for the edit line).

Too bad too, I was actually enjoying this conversation,
-JBC-
_________________________
-- -JBC-

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#312887 - 01/07/07 11:32 PM Re: Defense Against Dog Attack [Re: Borrek]
clmibb Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 1035
Loc: South Texas, US
Quote:


I'm actually autistic myself. My daughter and I are both Aspies (having Asperger's syndrome) so were a little different than people with standard autism, but we're on the spectrum nonetheless.




My older sister has Asperger's syndrome also (just diagnosed a few months ago) on top of having megaloencephaly (large brain).

Casey
_________________________
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."- Ronald Reagan


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