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#312372 - 01/04/07 02:18 PM anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ?
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoseikan

looks like they are doing some wonderful things in the UK with that style:
http://www.yoseikan.co.uk/page7.html
"SENSEI JOE COULES" looks about 10 years old.

anyway, despite the obvious mcdojo-itis...is it (or suppossed to be) a blend of Karate and Aikido? and does it have a kata curriculum?

thanks.

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#312373 - 01/04/07 02:48 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Yes,

I have seen a couple of classes and know one black belt in that style. I have met the head instructor in the States, Sensei Auge, once...nice, humble man with seemingly good abilities in Aikido and Judo. The technical merits for the advanced students in the Aikido side of things seemed quite good. And the black belt with whom I am familar with is a decent grappler.

The karate, as I have seen and have been exposed to by said black belt, is 'traditional' and too basic (to my liking) and for which I did not hold much consideration when practicing with this black belt, at least with respect to the karate portion as shown to me personally. The focus, however, was probably more on Aikido than the striking arts. The striking and kicking seemed more akin to Shotokan. This may not be true for other dojos, but the karate side of things did not warrant my consideration.

Here's a link to the Torrance head dojo.

http://www.yoseikanbudo.com/eng/hombudojo.shtml

-B

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#312374 - 01/04/07 02:59 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
Err Ed, might be payback time I fear, but Yoseikan Budo is my discipline… mainly karate.

Never heard of these guys. I do know they are nothing to do with Hiroo Mochizuki.
As you say seem mostly kids

Yoseikan was the first style of karate in the UK, it was old Shotokan, when the shotokan masters actually came to the UK, Mochizuki reverted to the name Yoseikan Karate.

Yoseikan was actually the school that practiced most of the MA.

.So the kata would be the shotokan style in karate, with the normal
Ueshiba aikido kata, and iaido kata, with the Judo “kata” { what ever they are called}

Hiroo Mochizuki developed yoseikan budo from his time training with other disciplines. With a very heavy boxing influence.

I trained and graded under Hiroo Mochizuki, he was really incredible and I think you now how cynical I am!!

He did develop yoseikan budo kata, calling them happoken,

Found the first one:-

http://home.planet.nl/~roos5784/happo/happo.htm Bit crap pics..

With the terrible martial political set up in the UK, to get genuine Governing body dan grades {and insurance} we had to get pure Karate grades in shotokan to teach kicks and punches, and Jujitsu dan grades for the locks throws etc. Got away with weapons as there wasn’t a governing body…..

We found that as Yoseikan Budo is so damn demanding, takes a good 7-10yrs to get 1st dan, most students tended to just want karate, so most of my clubs were just that, Shotokan karate, performed in the old Yoseikan way, { main difference is higher faster stances}

Lol Ed, I don’t feel a hypocrite at all

Real Yoseikan Budo is something special, but yoseikan karate in the UK is just shotokan with another name.

Im just off to get my crash helmet.


Regards

Mark

PS: be gentle

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#312375 - 01/04/07 07:56 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Mr_Moogle Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 63
Yea, I currently do Yoseikan-Ryu Karate, and after about 3-4 years, or at least from the dojo I'm learning from, I am really not impressed.

In my dojo, they do not teach you how to punch and kick properly, and the belt system (in Australia) we follow have multiple stripes in between each colour. From my reading of other various styles while I'm trying to switch styles soon, I guess it does follow a Shotokan-based sorta system, in that our katas are somewhat similar and have the same kata name and other various principles and aspects.

The style, at least from here, is quite tournament based. They seem to advocate high kicks (don't know about you guys, but I don't really like using it in a street confrontation), reverse punches and other point sparring type moves. Sparring is mostly no to light contact.

I'm not too shocked by the fees, 160 Australian dollars every 3 months is alright, yea?

So yea, in summary, Yoseikan karate is something I would not recommend, at least in Australia. It's pretty much Shotokan from what I've seen, but I guess only worse and more tournamentish sorta aspects. A lot more belts than most styles as well. The students themselves are pretty low standard as well, can't punch or kick. The only reason why I am able to even punch half decently or kick at a basic level is from my dad and the internet, nothing else. I want to get out, and join another karate style like Goju-ryu or something but have to wait...

I don't know about Yoseikan Budo, I heard it was pretty good. But I don't recommend Yoseikan Karate.

Just my experience.
_________________________
Speed, power, technique and mentality... They are the four aspects of fighting...

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#312376 - 01/05/07 08:40 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: mark]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Knowing Ed, I doubt it's a 'coincidence'.

Quote:

Err Ed, might be payback time I fear, but Yoseikan Budo is my discipline… mainly karate.



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#312377 - 01/05/07 09:00 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: harlan]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
You should do a search on Edgar Kruyning, he wrote several books on Yoskeikan Budo and Dynamic Budo.
I've met him once on a seminar. He seems rather competent and knows what he is doing.

Yoseikan consists of: Karate, Judo, Aikido and many more.
Yoseikan Bond Nederland
It is best to open in a translator. Dutch to English.
_________________________
Ives

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#312378 - 01/05/07 12:00 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Yes Ed,

I have heard of Yoseikan, Both Mr V (the old administrator and moderator of this site) and myself trained in Yoseikan under Mark. There has been previous discussion on this some time ago for example:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...rue#Post1576870


http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...224&fpart=3

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...amp;Search=true

There was an article by Steve Carlo in the June 2002 Fighters Magazine which mentioned our club and the history of Yoseikan. You could aloways read up on vernon bell for more information on Yoseikan and the UK.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,60-1029657,00.html



Steve


Edited by Khayman (01/05/07 12:04 PM)

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#312379 - 01/05/07 08:52 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Khayman]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
ED, As both Mark and I have previously stated for the nth time yoseikan does have kata.

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#312380 - 01/05/07 09:00 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Khayman]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
thank-you. so 'Yoseikan Karate' and 'Yoseikan Budo' are two separate styles? and the mcdojo link I pointed out was 'Yoseikan Karate' ? why do they reference Vernon Bell? wasn't he 'Yoseikan Budo' ? confusing.

Vernon Bell...Vernon Bell...now why does that name sound familiar....

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#312381 - 01/05/07 09:49 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: mark]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
"Yoseikan Budo is my discipline… mainly karate."

I'm confused mark...if you did 'mainly karate', wouldn't that be "Yoseikan Karate" ?

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#312382 - 01/05/07 09:58 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Ed, You referred to the site you found as a mcdojo link. The Yoseikan Karate Association UK site you found does not consitite a mcdojo in my books. I think you have been unfair on that one. They explain the style very clearly the early Yoseikan style formed by minoru mochizuki that came to the UK via Verno Bell included the jitsu, karate, aikido elements. I think the only comment has been the young dan grade. On a personal viewpoint I disagree with junior dan grades but if a club (like many do) awards a dan grade to a junior surely if they are deemed a Dan grade then the title of Sensei goes with it. I have been to lots of clubs Wado, Shotokan where junior 1st kyus sempai. Again its not our preference but I think you will find alot of clubs would use that title - That does not make them a mcdojo.


This style was passed down across instructors in the UK - Mark was one of the practicing instructors of this style. Minoru's son Hiroo founded Yoseikan Budo (a style widely practised across France today).
From my understanding the early style of Yoseikan was practiced in the UK by various groups. Hiroo Mochizuki came to the UK in 1993 for a seminar in croydon and some of these groups I believe joined together.

Mark (who was teaching at a university) did everything he could to keep costs down for his students so people like me and Mr V were able to afford to train whilst studying. No charges were made for gradings and licence fees were kept to a minimum. Mark helped alot of instructors through their coaching qualifications and helped other instructors such as sharon in their early days of running a club.
Of course the association you found mentioned vernon bell he was responsible for bringing yoseikan to the UK so effectively we would have the same roots going back to the 60's.

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#312383 - 01/05/07 10:58 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Khayman]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772

sorry to hear that. elementary school 'sensei' and 'sempai' - thats never been my experience. plus mark saying the kata taught there was dancing. plus the website looks like a cookie cutter mcdojo site/org...so yes, from my point of view it seems very likely a mcdojo.

but from your point of view...I'm sure it was really good stuff. mark seems to think he's become a better dancer from the Yoseikan experience....and thats great too.

Vernon Bell...I seem to remember seeing his signature on more than one 10th dan certificate via a sokeship council and hall of fame organization. Did Mr. Bell, with all respect, have authority to award 10th dan certificates?

nah, nevermind...wouldn't want to open that can o worms. The initiated can look it up for themselves.

you can have the last word if you want, I think I've read enough to answer my thread question.

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#312384 - 01/05/07 11:10 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Vernon Bell brought the art to the UK, he passed on the teaching which was then passed on and on to myself. I have no interest in what he did after this as it does not affect me in the slightest. Ed you are clutching at straws to win a point over Mark. Pathetic really.
I feel sorry for the association who you have dragged into this debate - looking at your website its not really cutting edge design itself is it? Cookie cutter?

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#312385 - 01/05/07 11:27 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Khayman]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
quoting mark:
Quote:

yawn!



I wasn't looking to one-up anyone...you asked me why I thought the style seemed mcdojo...so I told you.

lol...my website? is that Nth Degree News page still visited? well, I'm not a web designer. and besides ...comedy is not pretty.

oh, and this thread: I was just playin. You can take a joke cantcha matey?

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#312386 - 01/06/07 02:02 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
ROFLMAO Ed,

I’m so very flattered that you have gone to all this trouble, it looks like I really got to you on the Kata thread, Thank you so very much for the entertainment.

Btw, do you mean the style is mcdojo or what they practice? As stated I have nothing to do with them, nor do I wish to.

You don’t really think I care, even in the slightest what you or anyone else thinks do you?

Again thanks you for spending so much time trying to “even the score” you must have trawled through years of previous posts to find out that I even practiced Yoseikan, then to find these Mcdojo ( I do like that expression).
I assure you I wont be wasting any of my time looking you up.

Warmest regards

Mark

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#312387 - 01/06/07 04:58 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: mark]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Hi Mark

I got bored with this one earlier, it was good for a laugh.

The thing I find incredible (and very sad) is that people take the time to create websites the show the world their style. One person comes along and in their infinate wisdom deems them a mcdojo without stepping a foot over their dojo and no information on pricing or syllabus. It would seem in this day an age better to not have a website (like we didnt).
Its one thing to dislike a site, even point fun at parts however the term mcdojo does have a specific meaning and should only be used when you have all the facts. Plus, at this time, the group Ed has found is oblivious to all this and obviously if you do not know about it how could they reply. Do you think Mr Morris has emailed them to let them know of his critique?

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#312388 - 01/06/07 07:37 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: mark]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
the way I 'found out' is by looking at your profile. it has this as an e-mail address "yoseikan46@hotmail.com"

lol.


"do you mean the style is mcdojo or what they practice? "
neither. the website has an elementary school age sensei, a certificate mill endorsing founder and mark says his place taught him dancing.

not sure if everyone would qualify that as a mcdojo...but I'm positive there are some who wouldn't.

In any event, doesn't sound like something I care to look further into to.

try not to bust a gut acting like you were entertained to cover your embarrassement...the smarter readers tend to be able to see thru that.

have a nice dance, guys.

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#312389 - 01/06/07 08:43 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Quote:


try not to bust a gut acting like you were entertained to cover your embarrassement...the smarter readers tend to be able to see thru that.

have a nice dance, guys.






No the entertainment was you as a critic. Please could you confirm your training history to me so I could at least understand your level of attainment in the arts. You said you have been training a long time

If you are trying to judge us I would at least like to know the qualifications on the judge???


Edited by Khayman (01/06/07 08:45 AM)

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#312390 - 01/06/07 10:44 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Yep. Don't go there Ed.

Quote:

Vernon Bell...Vernon Bell...now why does that name sound familiar....




Too late. Just read the thread.

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#312391 - 01/06/07 11:16 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: harlan]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
Sorry Ed, completely forgot about that email address, haven’t used it in ages, must have a look and see what’s been sent....

Vernon Bell, I have never trained under him, but I have trained with lots who have, hmmm, some of the stories are well, strange.

But he was the person that brought karate to England so i guess that gets some genuine fame.

Lots of yoseikan styles sprung up around the world, very few instructors endorsed by Minoru or Hiroo Mochizuki, they just use the name, which is, I guess McDojo in its self.
But who cares really, If people want a 10yr old dan grade, as long as it doesn’t affect me I don’t care what they do.
I once trained with a 15yr old, 5th dan at a seminar, I was a 4th dan at the time, but twice his age. Grade, Age, size, gender who cares! its what you can do, or what you can teach that really matters.

Hey Ed, heres some real MCdojo stuff, I was once in a jujutsu association that was based 500miles from me, I took my 2nd dan grading on the telephone!!! I just phoned up one day to check some licenses and as I had reached my annual quota. I was eligible for the grade!!! Can anyone out Mcdojo that!!?
Needless to say I wasn’t with them very long, well not after I fax graded to 6th dan….
Actually as I think about it, I never sent them any money for that intensive grading, I never had my certificate or grading license stamped, so when I graded Properly, with another association, for 3rd dan in Jujitsu, I actually went from 1st to 3rd , even more Mcdojo

As I never wore tags on my black belt, I didn’t matter, and I only needed the Jujitsu grade for insurance purposes so I was qualified to teach locks, throws etc.

Lol, I would have needed 5 belts for the different grades in each discipline, wow that would have been wonderfully vain.

Better still, I really should get a red and white block belt, and really show off,

mark

PS: Sorry Ed I dont understand "a certificate mill endorsing founder and mark says his place taught him "


Edited by mark (01/06/07 11:18 AM)

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#312392 - 01/06/07 01:15 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Khayman]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
I'm not judging you. I'm not qualified, nor would I care for such a position. I was curious about what Yoseikan was basically about...kind of like looking up something in an encyclopedia. sounds like Shotokan with some joint locks and throws that fell into the common trappings of over-commercialization.

my background is boring. some goju, and a bit of other stuff. I have no rank, but people tolerate that I'm yudansha-like. I got some videos from last year hanging around somewhere on these boards if you feel like making fun of me. If you decide to go that route, the only pre-requisite I ask is that you post a video of yourself also.

what was it that medulanet says? "put up or shut up"

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#312393 - 01/06/07 03:17 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Quote:

I'm not judging you. I'm not qualified, nor would I care for such a position.



Fair enough, debate closed.

Steve

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#312394 - 01/10/07 02:08 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2577
Hi Ed

I acutally posted about Yoseikan in the Aikido forum a while back:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=2#Post15874240

Butterfly and Aikikiai where good enough to give some great replies. Aikikiai's response gives a very detailed account of its founder and the system.

From what I understand, Mochizuki was one of the first, if not THE first person to demonstrate Aikido in France. As he had extensive experience in other martial arts as well, ( Shotokan and Judo in particular), he was at the fore of introducing Aikido and Karate in France.

Yoseikan Budo doesn't seem to be either a karate style or an Aikido style, its something different now, from what I understand.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#312395 - 01/16/07 08:18 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
photosmart Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 7
Quote:


sorry to hear that. elementary school 'sensei' and 'sempai' - thats never been my experience. plus mark saying the kata taught there was dancing. plus the website looks like a cookie cutter mcdojo site/org...so yes, from my point of view it seems very likely a mcdojo.

but from your point of view...I'm sure it was really good stuff. mark seems to think he's become a better dancer from the Yoseikan experience....and thats great too.

Vernon Bell...I seem to remember seeing his signature on more than one 10th dan certificate via a sokeship council and hall of fame organization. Did Mr. Bell, with all respect, have authority to award 10th dan certificates?

nah, nevermind...wouldn't want to open that can o worms. The initiated can look it up for themselves.

you can have the last word if you want, I think I've read enough to answer my thread question.




Hi Ed? nth dan?
I am new to the forum and was lead to understand that the name of the forum was fighting Arts? There fore fighting arts were discussed?
Rather than ask and seemingly put someone down why dont you address your questions about Vernon Bell to some one like Roy Stanhope 7th dan or some other high dan ranking in the UK? Or even better put the question to the dojo in question
Roys website is on google. I am sure if he can be bothered answering the answers will be correct.

Looks like you two might have some interesting points of conversation.If Roy can be bothered then maybe ask him for his thoughts on your videos?

I study Vale Tudo.We dont realy bother to much with rank as such. More MMA's. I train some times at Catterick Garrison UK where a lot of competative martial artists train. Google it if you are wondering where it is. I enjoy reading about technical debates with most martial arts there is always something to learn but I dont realy enjoy reading arguments about how a website reflects on what their organisation does or doesnt do.
What say you address these comments to the people involved?
I am sure they would or wouldnt like to hear from you?
Have fun


Edited by photosmart (01/16/07 08:54 PM)

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#312396 - 01/16/07 09:59 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: photosmart]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
good points...well, not really. I'm sure the Art of Yoseikan is deep enough for a lifetime study. I trust the opinions that people gave here, and thats as far as 'm willing to look into it.

my first impression of what Yoseikan was about was the same way many get their first impression of an Art...thru a website via google. What I saw from a random search was 10-year old sensei and your basic fluff that usually surrounds that notion....and they had the Yoseikan name.

fault me for mentioning my first impression if you like, but you can't fault me for the existance of all publically viewable websites bearing the name Yoseikan which turn up on google searches.

p.s. 'nth degree' means nothing...which is the point. see: humor.

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#312397 - 01/16/07 10:26 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: photosmart]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
btw, Roy Stanhope is not part of Yoseikan, as far as I know, he's studied Kimura Shukokai. so I'm confused by your reference to him in this thread.

when you are ready to admit your agenda, let us know.

I didn't catch your real name....I need your real name so when I e-mail Mr. Stanhope, I can tell him who referred me to him.

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#312398 - 01/16/07 10:55 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Prizewriter]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
prizewriter, sorry I missed your post...I appreciate the info.

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#312399 - 01/17/07 03:11 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
aikikiai (David Orange) is your man, if you want to know about Yoseikan.

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#312400 - 01/17/07 03:13 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
photosmart Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 7
Quote:

btw, Roy Stanhope is not part of Yoseikan, as far as I know, he's studied Kimura Shukokai. so I'm confused by your reference to him in this thread.


I didn't catch your real name....I need your real name so when I e-mail Mr. Stanhope, I can tell him who referred me to him.





Rather than ask and seemingly put someone down why dont you address your questions about Vernon Bell to some one like Roy Stanhope 7th dan or some other high dan ranking in the UK? Or even better put the question to the dojo in question


Seems clear to me what I wrote. Roy is of the age to have poss known something of Vernon Bell as are a lot of other high ranking dans in the uk
If you have a mind to ask Roy(and if he can be bothered with your questions about Vernon Bell) my name is Dave Jenkins.I trained with Roy on quite a few training sessions . Interesting that you say you trained in Kimura Shukokia yet the videos you posted seem to show minimum influence from that style. This isnt me poking fun just an observation.


What I suggested was ask him yourself or any of the other high ranking dan grades in the uk who can give their thoughts if they have a mind to on Vernon bell just so its clear on that matter.
From what I heard Vernon was good at what he did.

The other point I am making is based on a website photo you would seem to condem the organisation.Ever considered it might be a mistake on the web designers part?
For all you know that specific organisation might be good for the people who train in it.

I have said my piece, do as you will, but constant slating of karate ka/ martial artists to me goes against the ethics of most martial artists I know. Its a pity you dont live in the UK. Have you ever thought of visiting? I am sure a lot of practioners in dojos would welcome you. Quite a lot of practioners do read this forum. That is is how I found about it.

Pity that the technical side seems to be missing on the karate forum.








Edited by photosmart (01/17/07 03:28 PM)

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#312401 - 01/17/07 03:44 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: photosmart]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Photosmart -

I think you misread Ed's comment. Ed did not say that he studied Kimura Shukokai himself.

Quote by Ed Morris -

Quote:

Roy Stanhope is not part of Yoseikan, as far as I know, he's studied Kimura Shukokai. so I'm confused by your reference to him in this thread.


_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#312402 - 01/17/07 04:28 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: photosmart]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
ah...I see your agenda now, thanks.

I NEVER put Roy's or anyone's dojo down. I told you my first impression of Yoseikan was probably wrong based on a website that looked mcdojoish...what else do you want?


I was commenting on a website which advertised itself as Yoseikan. If the mcdojo Yoseikan site is false advertising, maybe you should take it up with them.

I could care less about your threats...threats are a dime-a-dozen (and a banable offense btw) on these boards and only serve to show the true character of the person making them.
I've found that threats are usually made by bogus ryu's and sokey-dokeys defending their right to make money....either that, or they are threats from dito-heads that are programmed to be loyalists.

seeing as the kata videos you reference show goju kata (and one basics matsubayashi kata), I'm not surprized you don't see shukokai influence.


something for you to reflect and ponder: Since YOU are judging me by my posts without ever having met me, is that different from people judging a dojo website without ever having gone to the dojo?

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#312403 - 01/17/07 04:33 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: photosmart]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Holy cow. Are you actually reading the posts here?

Quote:

Pity that the technical side seems to be missing on the karate forum.







Feel free to start some technical threads. We are truly grateful that you have blessed us with your presence, technical Dave.

Ever thought of visiting Arkansas Dave?
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#312404 - 01/17/07 04:45 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: BrianS]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
LOL photosmart.

I am probably the highest ranking Yoseikan dan grade in the UK, that’s who has been endorsed by Hiroo Mochizuki { 1 other guy might have also got 5th dan}

But Yoseikan in the UK is fragmented and not in any way unified or organised.

But so what, I have governing body dan grades in several arts, proper teaching qualifications. And I am allowed to use the Yoseikan name, sad thing is, so it seems are the Mcdojo that Ed found on the net…..

Im thinking of starting up classes in yoseikan ninjutsu, very exclusive membership, £250 to join, £15 ph lesson fee, £50 per grading, of which there are 37 separate grades before “grand black belt 1st degree”………. DO you think it will take off??

Ed, I really like your style, we must fence more often, my genuine respect to you

Regards

Mark

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#312405 - 01/17/07 04:48 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: MattJ]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Quote:

Photosmart -

I think you misread Ed's comment. Ed did not say that he studied Kimura Shukokai himself.

Quote by Ed Morris -

Quote:

Roy Stanhope is not part of Yoseikan, as far as I know, he's studied Kimura Shukokai. so I'm confused by your reference to him in this thread.







I'm not sure why Shukokai even became part of this conversation. but for the record, as I've said before a few times I am NOT currently a Kimura Shukokai practitioner. Nor do I claim rank in it's system. I have 4 years of Kimura's 'influence' during the late 80's.

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#312406 - 01/17/07 04:58 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: photosmart]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Is that 'Dave Jenkins' from 'McMaster Security & parking Services' of 'McMaster University' ?
http://www.mcmaster.ca/security/staff.htm

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#312407 - 01/17/07 11:57 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
photosmart Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 7
Quote:




I was commenting on a website which advertised itself as Yoseikan. If the mcdojo Yoseikan site is false advertising, maybe you should take it up with them.

I could care less about your threats...threats are a dime-a-dozen (and a banable offense btw) on these boards and only serve to show the true character of the person making them.
I've found that threats are usually made by bogus ryu's and sokey-dokeys defending their right to make money....either that, or they are threats from dito-heads that are programmed to be loyalists.

seeing as the kata videos you reference show goju kata (and one basics matsubayashi kata), I'm not surprized you don't see shukokai influence.


something for you to reflect and ponder: Since YOU are judging me by my posts without ever having met me, is that different from people judging a dojo website without ever having gone to the dojo?




Ahh I see your agenda now. What threats? I dont see no threats? If you are ever in the UK though you would be most welcome to come and train at a lot of dojos.

And no that isnt me in the photo. Sorry but nice try. Typical kind of response I would expect. Any how Im finished with this topic. Like I said if you ever come to the Uk please e mail me. You would be most welcome to train at quite a few dojos.

have fun

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#312408 - 01/18/07 12:10 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: photosmart]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
ok. yes, that does sound like fun. I'll e-mail you soon to get a list of dojos you have invited me to.

[add] looks like you forgot to make your e-mail address available in your profile. what's your e-mail address?
also, I couldn't find the link you mention of your Vale Tudo club. 'Catterick Garrison UK' comes up with an Army site. could you give a link to your club...it sounds interesting.

thanks.

unless this is it:
http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/IAOMAS_England/Counties/IAOMAS_England_North_Yorkshire%20.htm

is this the address: shotaikai@aol.com ? I see you are posting here using an AOL account...so maybe thats it.

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#312409 - 01/18/07 12:59 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
photosmart Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 7
Quote:

ok. yes, that does sound like fun. I'll e-mail you soon to get a list of dojos you have invited me to.

[add] looks like you forgot to make your e-mail address available in your profile. what's your e-mail address?
also, I couldn't find the link you mention of your Vale Tudo club. 'Catterick Garrison UK' comes up with an Army site. could you give a link to your club...it sounds interesting.

thanks.

unless this is it:
http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/IAOMAS_England/Counties/IAOMAS_England_North_Yorkshire%20.htm

is this the address: shotaikai@aol.com ? I see you are posting here using an AOL account...so maybe thats it.





As I said Ed anytime your in the UK you are certainly most welcome to come and train at any amount of dojos. You see Ed a number of us martial artist's read your input on the karate forum. A lot of the martial artists belong to organisations that you in your world of cyber space (in the past) have deemed unworthy.
Some of your input we find amusing some we find stupid but either way Ed
your name and vidoes are some what of a legend here amongst martial artists and a number of us would love to see and train with the legend in real life.
So keep posting have fun and if you ever do come to the
Uk get in touch. Easy just post it on the forum

As we say here Bye for now

have fun

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#312410 - 01/18/07 01:40 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: photosmart]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
so no e-mail address or list of dojos, then? and more subliminal threats? ok, so I go to the UK and visit some folks who feel they have something to prove. let's say I get beaten badly. then I come back to the US in a cast. what did that change? there are still 10 year old sensei on websites, and frauds are still posting their fake 10th dan credentials - and people like you continue to make threats to people they don't know on forums. lol

also, please prove to me that I've ever said anything derrogitory or 'deemed unworthy' about anyone or any organization. put the links up. If you are going to accuse someone of something, then you have the burden of proof.

as in every forum on the planet, I've evaluated WEBSITES before. 'first impression' based upon the info given on a website.

I'm going to find out who you are and when I do, I'll post it right here.

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#312411 - 01/18/07 07:11 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: photosmart]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
well, 'Dave' first e-mail came back, this one is from the well-respected MMA event organizer and instructor of Vale Tudo, Mick Nokes, in the UK who also is head of the club (Catterick Garrison) you claimed to frequent:

here is my full and unedited e-mail to Mr. Nokes:
Quote:


Hi, my name is Ed Morris, I'm in the U.S. I'm not affiliated to any org, or make any claims and just train on my own with a private study group.

For some reason, your organization name came up in this conversation:
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...part=1&vc=1

by a 'Dave Jenkins' aka 'photosmart' who claims to be a part of your organization.

just wanted to ask if you support internet warriors claiming affiliation to your org handing out subliminal threats over a forum to people they don't know. If he threatens everyone on a forum that gives their opinion about a website (and it wasn't even any of your organization's websites)...then you are certainly bound to get some interesting responses from people alot less nice than me.

take care,
-Ed Morris (no threat to anyone's ego)





here is his full and unedited prompt reply:
Quote:


Thanks for your email. I can confirm that Dave Jenkins in nothing to do with our organisation, and until his name came up in your email, I have never even heard of the guy. Shotai Kai is a group of clubs made up of genuine students who treain because they love martial arts, and we never threaten anyone, be it inside forums, or in the street.

Yet again, thanks for your email, it is always good to be made aware of trolls like this.

Regards in Budo

Mick





so 'Dave'...that in itself is grounds for your dismissal. but why stop there, there are so many other interesting things to find out about you - no doubt.

your anonimity is your disadvantage. people who don't lie or need to be anonymous will always easily expose fakes like you. btw, are you related to 'Paul Jenkins'? or did you just steal his identity?
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterid=3567
http://sfuk.tripod.com/interviews_03/paul_jenkins.html
or I can just e-mail him and ask.

ps. anyone reading this from the UK who is interested in MMA, Mick's clubs sound like a good opportunity for quality instruction... check him out at his site:
http://www.prideandglory.org.uk/

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#312412 - 01/18/07 10:56 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
photosmart has been shown the door.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#312413 - 01/18/07 02:11 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: BrianS]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
actually, he ran away screaming like a little girl thru the door...and the admin just locked it behind him.

trolls: gotta love em.

if anyone feels like investigating this particular troll, his IP address was 172.143.92.185 ...it's an AOL account that he thinks is untraceable - but I'm having an interesting conversation with a tech at AOL right now.

run...troll....run. lol

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#312414 - 01/18/07 05:40 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
You scare me Ed...
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#312415 - 01/19/07 05:54 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: BrianS]
RockHard Huy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 65
So obsessed with winning.

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#436554 - 01/16/17 02:28 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
tru Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/09/17
Posts: 2
Hi, I am new to this forum, so I don't know if this topic has been resolved yet. So does anyone still want to know what the Yoseikan Karate is about? Or judging by the first link, it was about the British Yoseikan Aasociation.

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#436557 - 01/17/17 02:29 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
tru Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/09/17
Posts: 2
Yes, trained in it with the UK master, Chris Clarry.....

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