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#312382 - 01/05/07 09:58 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Ed, You referred to the site you found as a mcdojo link. The Yoseikan Karate Association UK site you found does not consitite a mcdojo in my books. I think you have been unfair on that one. They explain the style very clearly the early Yoseikan style formed by minoru mochizuki that came to the UK via Verno Bell included the jitsu, karate, aikido elements. I think the only comment has been the young dan grade. On a personal viewpoint I disagree with junior dan grades but if a club (like many do) awards a dan grade to a junior surely if they are deemed a Dan grade then the title of Sensei goes with it. I have been to lots of clubs Wado, Shotokan where junior 1st kyus sempai. Again its not our preference but I think you will find alot of clubs would use that title - That does not make them a mcdojo.


This style was passed down across instructors in the UK - Mark was one of the practicing instructors of this style. Minoru's son Hiroo founded Yoseikan Budo (a style widely practised across France today).
From my understanding the early style of Yoseikan was practiced in the UK by various groups. Hiroo Mochizuki came to the UK in 1993 for a seminar in croydon and some of these groups I believe joined together.

Mark (who was teaching at a university) did everything he could to keep costs down for his students so people like me and Mr V were able to afford to train whilst studying. No charges were made for gradings and licence fees were kept to a minimum. Mark helped alot of instructors through their coaching qualifications and helped other instructors such as sharon in their early days of running a club.
Of course the association you found mentioned vernon bell he was responsible for bringing yoseikan to the UK so effectively we would have the same roots going back to the 60's.

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#312383 - 01/05/07 10:58 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Khayman]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772

sorry to hear that. elementary school 'sensei' and 'sempai' - thats never been my experience. plus mark saying the kata taught there was dancing. plus the website looks like a cookie cutter mcdojo site/org...so yes, from my point of view it seems very likely a mcdojo.

but from your point of view...I'm sure it was really good stuff. mark seems to think he's become a better dancer from the Yoseikan experience....and thats great too.

Vernon Bell...I seem to remember seeing his signature on more than one 10th dan certificate via a sokeship council and hall of fame organization. Did Mr. Bell, with all respect, have authority to award 10th dan certificates?

nah, nevermind...wouldn't want to open that can o worms. The initiated can look it up for themselves.

you can have the last word if you want, I think I've read enough to answer my thread question.

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#312384 - 01/05/07 11:10 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Vernon Bell brought the art to the UK, he passed on the teaching which was then passed on and on to myself. I have no interest in what he did after this as it does not affect me in the slightest. Ed you are clutching at straws to win a point over Mark. Pathetic really.
I feel sorry for the association who you have dragged into this debate - looking at your website its not really cutting edge design itself is it? Cookie cutter?

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#312385 - 01/05/07 11:27 PM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Khayman]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
quoting mark:
Quote:

yawn!



I wasn't looking to one-up anyone...you asked me why I thought the style seemed mcdojo...so I told you.

lol...my website? is that Nth Degree News page still visited? well, I'm not a web designer. and besides ...comedy is not pretty.

oh, and this thread: I was just playin. You can take a joke cantcha matey?

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#312386 - 01/06/07 02:02 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
ROFLMAO Ed,

Iím so very flattered that you have gone to all this trouble, it looks like I really got to you on the Kata thread, Thank you so very much for the entertainment.

Btw, do you mean the style is mcdojo or what they practice? As stated I have nothing to do with them, nor do I wish to.

You donít really think I care, even in the slightest what you or anyone else thinks do you?

Again thanks you for spending so much time trying to ďeven the scoreĒ you must have trawled through years of previous posts to find out that I even practiced Yoseikan, then to find these Mcdojo ( I do like that expression).
I assure you I wont be wasting any of my time looking you up.

Warmest regards

Mark

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#312387 - 01/06/07 04:58 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: mark]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Hi Mark

I got bored with this one earlier, it was good for a laugh.

The thing I find incredible (and very sad) is that people take the time to create websites the show the world their style. One person comes along and in their infinate wisdom deems them a mcdojo without stepping a foot over their dojo and no information on pricing or syllabus. It would seem in this day an age better to not have a website (like we didnt).
Its one thing to dislike a site, even point fun at parts however the term mcdojo does have a specific meaning and should only be used when you have all the facts. Plus, at this time, the group Ed has found is oblivious to all this and obviously if you do not know about it how could they reply. Do you think Mr Morris has emailed them to let them know of his critique?

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#312388 - 01/06/07 07:37 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: mark]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
the way I 'found out' is by looking at your profile. it has this as an e-mail address "yoseikan46@hotmail.com"

lol.


"do you mean the style is mcdojo or what they practice? "
neither. the website has an elementary school age sensei, a certificate mill endorsing founder and mark says his place taught him dancing.

not sure if everyone would qualify that as a mcdojo...but I'm positive there are some who wouldn't.

In any event, doesn't sound like something I care to look further into to.

try not to bust a gut acting like you were entertained to cover your embarrassement...the smarter readers tend to be able to see thru that.

have a nice dance, guys.

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#312389 - 01/06/07 08:43 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Quote:


try not to bust a gut acting like you were entertained to cover your embarrassement...the smarter readers tend to be able to see thru that.

have a nice dance, guys.






No the entertainment was you as a critic. Please could you confirm your training history to me so I could at least understand your level of attainment in the arts. You said you have been training a long time

If you are trying to judge us I would at least like to know the qualifications on the judge???


Edited by Khayman (01/06/07 08:45 AM)

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#312390 - 01/06/07 10:44 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Yep. Don't go there Ed.

Quote:

Vernon Bell...Vernon Bell...now why does that name sound familiar....




Too late. Just read the thread.

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#312391 - 01/06/07 11:16 AM Re: anyone ever hear of Yoseikan ? [Re: harlan]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
Sorry Ed, completely forgot about that email address, havenít used it in ages, must have a look and see whatís been sent....

Vernon Bell, I have never trained under him, but I have trained with lots who have, hmmm, some of the stories are well, strange.

But he was the person that brought karate to England so i guess that gets some genuine fame.

Lots of yoseikan styles sprung up around the world, very few instructors endorsed by Minoru or Hiroo Mochizuki, they just use the name, which is, I guess McDojo in its self.
But who cares really, If people want a 10yr old dan grade, as long as it doesnít affect me I donít care what they do.
I once trained with a 15yr old, 5th dan at a seminar, I was a 4th dan at the time, but twice his age. Grade, Age, size, gender who cares! its what you can do, or what you can teach that really matters.

Hey Ed, heres some real MCdojo stuff, I was once in a jujutsu association that was based 500miles from me, I took my 2nd dan grading on the telephone!!! I just phoned up one day to check some licenses and as I had reached my annual quota. I was eligible for the grade!!! Can anyone out Mcdojo that!!?
Needless to say I wasnít with them very long, well not after I fax graded to 6th danÖ.
Actually as I think about it, I never sent them any money for that intensive grading, I never had my certificate or grading license stamped, so when I graded Properly, with another association, for 3rd dan in Jujitsu, I actually went from 1st to 3rd , even more Mcdojo

As I never wore tags on my black belt, I didnít matter, and I only needed the Jujitsu grade for insurance purposes so I was qualified to teach locks, throws etc.

Lol, I would have needed 5 belts for the different grades in each discipline, wow that would have been wonderfully vain.

Better still, I really should get a red and white block belt, and really show off,

mark

PS: Sorry Ed I dont understand "a certificate mill endorsing founder and mark says his place taught him "


Edited by mark (01/06/07 11:18 AM)

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