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#311998 - 01/08/07 11:16 AM Re: Cycle of Destruction/Yin-Yang/Setup Points [Re: MattJ]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I'm fine thanks... just got a free rhinoplasty!

Anyway, pressure points, no matter how you study them, takes years of study. I wasn't allowed to start until I was a black belt. Now they let people start sooner which I find curious, but I shall not argue with my school. Better minds than mine have decided it is OK. To me it is useless to know where the pressure points are if you don't know how to hit correctly. It is useless and even counter productive to be trying to focus on a pressure point added to a tuite maneuver, if you can't execute the basic tuite maneuver, which if taught correctly, would have some attention to correct focus on a pressure point (quite probably) whether or not it was ever overtly stated. Then too I know that if the bar were raised to where it should ideally be, I myself would be excluded.

As for basic philosophy guiding the years of training, I don't wish to be guided by ancient Chinese medical practice. I realize this is an artical of faith for some, which makes me a heretic at the very least, but why should earth, water, fire, metal, wood in Chinese medicine yield any more valid explanations than the Westerners who battled with earth, air, fire and water? Both cultures learned a lot from the best methods they had in cadaver study, and observations of healers. Both layed the foundations for a more modern medicine.

Why ignore all the bioimagery, biometrics, and benefits of scientific method to inform our study and practice? I know Dr. Sergio Espejo got a research award this year from KI. I have not seen anything peer reviewed written by him. If I could, it would be very exciting. Instead of repeating that we don't know much, I'd rather get going with the research and maybe that would help us learn this art more efficiently.
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#311999 - 01/23/07 02:34 PM Re: Cycle of Destruction/Yin-Yang/Setup Points [Re: underdog]
Hawks01 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 7
Quote:

I'm fine thanks... just got a free rhinoplasty!

Anyway, pressure points, no matter how you study them, takes years of study. I wasn't allowed to start until I was a black belt. Now they let people start sooner which I find curious, but I shall not argue with my school. Better minds than mine have decided it is OK. To me it is useless to know where the pressure points are if you don't know how to hit correctly. It is useless and even counter productive to be trying to focus on a pressure point added to a tuite maneuver, if you can't execute the basic tuite maneuver, which if taught correctly, would have some attention to correct focus on a pressure point (quite probably) whether or not it was ever overtly stated. Then too I know that if the bar were raised to where it should ideally be, I myself would be excluded.
Quote:



I hate to disagree but I have to. We start teaching PP theory not actual strikes from white belt. I have seen some of the techniques done by Black Belts who just started learning PP's and you can tell that it is still about muscle and less about finese.Since the techniques work( because they just power through them) They never really learn how to work with PP correctly. IMO (and just my opinion) I think we should teach PP theory right away, so with every punch every kick from day one the student has an idea of what they are supposed to be doing with these techniques. I cant tell you how many times I have heard well I am kicking them in the leg and punching them in the stomach. What does that have to do with PP?? and more importantly what have you been learning for years?? Like I said just my opinion
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#312000 - 01/23/07 04:14 PM Re: Cycle of Destruction/Yin-Yang/Setup Points [Re: Hawks01]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Well you have expressed the prevailing opinion in my school pretty well.

We have Kyusho kids as a matter of fact. They do well. These are the best of the kids from their own classes. They have a special Kyusho class a couple of times a month. They learn things like how to escape the grasp of an adult in an abduction attempt. When they punch you in P2 or kick you in Sp 6, you know it. Clearly they are learning the material.

It probably should be integrated into the material from the beginning, maybe without having to be part of a special class. Maybe someday it will be there. I suspect that in the past, that may have been the way it was taught- just in there, in the stew. Why punch when you can punch a point? Why punch a point if you can get the correct angle? Gee if the points are as dangerous as what they are supposed to be, why risk having someone punch one accidentally? I'll change.


Edited by underdog (01/23/07 06:53 PM)
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#312001 - 01/24/07 09:47 AM Re: Cycle of Destruction/Yin-Yang/Setup Points [Re: underdog]
Hawks01 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 7
Are you part of DKI? If so that might be why our schools philosophies are the same. I dont train directly under one of George Dillmans students but my instuctors instuctor trains with George. I would imagine that this filters down.
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#312002 - 01/24/07 10:52 AM Re: Cycle of Destruction/Yin-Yang/Setup Points [Re: Hawks01]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
My school is affiliated with Kyusho International which is Evan Pantazi's program. Evan Pantazi was a DKI student and teacher for many years. That is why there is the similarity. We are all members of the same family.
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#312003 - 04/05/07 04:53 PM Re: Cycle of Destruction/Yin-Yang/Setup Points [Re: MattJ]
edepot Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 1
I was browsing the web and came across this thread.
Does anyone ever do any research on what yin and yang means?
I looked around and here is what I found:
The Yin Yang (the symbol) actually has many secrets.

You can view the secrets explained in the video at this link:
http://www.metacafe.com/user/4464727/edepot/

The scroll mentioned in that video is here...
http://www.edepot.com/taoart.html

Pass those URL to your friends. Why would you do that? Because they
would then know the secret too!

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#312004 - 04/06/07 09:41 AM Re: Cycle of Destruction/Yin-Yang/Setup Points [Re: edepot]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I pay minimal attention to it. Polarity is in constant flux when you are in motion. The system I study with is moving toward encouraging people to become more medically aware in Western explanations rather than in traditional Chinese Medicine.

Talk about polarity!!!! This sets up a highly charged state for practitioners of different styles. The arguements that go on in an eclectic forum like this can be so charged that sparks fly. Wait and so how many people will respond to this post defending TCM.

My teachers, for example encourage us to attend human cadaver studies and things like the the Body Works exhibit. I went to such a cadaver study arranged for us by one of the doctors in our system a couple of years ago. It was such a fantastic experience. He disected out for us from the brachial plexus down through the wrist. We got to see all relevant anatomical structures and the location of the arm points. It was a spiritual experience. Oh how we are wonderfully made.

Last year, the same doctor ran another and he showed people the head. I had to miss that one.

So in the end of the day, this is what I use Yin and Yang for. I mix Yin and Yang strikes. Attendance to Yin and Yang gives me a clue to know how uke will fall. It guides my breathing and postsure. That is it, aside from the probability that I'll think of something later.
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