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#311222 - 12/30/06 09:42 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: JKogas]
pianoperson Offline
sweet chin music

Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 184
Loc: US of A
i haven't waded thru the above conversation yet, but i heard something interesting on NPR. they interviewed the guy who manages their office over there, and he said that he thought the violence would surge for a couple of weeks and then die down to a lower level than it was at b4 he was executed. so, it would serve as some kind of catharsis so that people could, to some extent, move on. of course it's hard to "move on" when you can't even walk out your front door without fear of getting shot. of course, that's the situation just a few miles away from where i live, on the west side of chicago...

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#311223 - 12/30/06 09:49 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: mark]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Still, the American PEOPLE sponsered terrorisom in England for over 30 yrs and Britain is still the USAs strongest ally.




Now that is a stupid statement. The American people as a whole certainly did NOT support the IRA's tactics. I for one was horrified by what they did, no matter the justification. And for the record, I am part Irish on my mother's side. Many Americans were reviled by their tactics. And, as Cord said, our government did NOT support the IRA's tactics at all.

Don't lump us all together, jack.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#311224 - 12/30/06 11:15 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: Cord]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
sidesteping the emotional arguments I just want to correct a false statement:
Quote:

He also funded, hosted, and helped train Taliban and Bin Laden sympathisers.



No he didn't. back when the US was desparately trying to find that link between Hussein and Bin Laden (to give legitimacy to attacking Iraq), none were found - so they went the WMD route. In fact, not even enough circumstantial evidence to even reasonably suggest a link....thats why they took the submliminal route of making the appearance of a link by simply mentioning both over and over within the same sentance - giving the impression of a link, but no logicaly constructed connection.

in addition to that fact, Hussein had a list of charges that he was put to death for...connections to 9-11 or Bin Laden was not one of them.

Here is the list of charges he was put to death for:

* Killing of religious figures in 1974

* Killing of a Kurdish clan in 1983

* Killing political figures during his reign

* The 1986-1988 Anfal campaign against the Kurds in northern Iraq

* Gassing the Kurds in the northern Iraqi town of Halabja in 1988

* The suppression of the 1991 uprisings by Kurds and Shiites

* The 1990 invasion of Kuwait.


so what was the Iraq invasion in 2003 for again? To protect the Kurds from him? In an press conference in 2002, Bush didn't even know who Kurds were when asked.

Saddam's main crime summary was that he had a policy of genocide toward the Kurdish people...which is a crime against humanity. It was right for the world community to put him to death - but lets not confuse the reasons why Hussein was put to death in order to justify separate interests and actions of the West.

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#311225 - 12/30/06 12:04 PM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: mark]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Quote:



Still, the American PEOPLE sponsered terrorisom in England for over 30 yrs and Britain is still the USAs strongest ally.






OHhhhhh right, so it was just England? Am sure the rest of the people in the UK, Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland will be glad to hear that!!!!! So glad the Troubles didn't effect them as well!

Michael Moore, in one of his books, came up with a great idea to solve the woes of Northern Ireland. It was that more than half the populus should abandon their religion and convert to the religion of Mr Moores Irish ancesters. Thats right, that was his humane idea of dealing with the situation.

He then proceeded to justify his theory by stating that the "his" people where oppressed, treated as second class citizens.

WTF!!!!?


AS one of his "suppose" brethen (simply by accident of birth I am was born the same religion as Michael Moore) I was disgusted and shocked at this pseudo-intellect talking out of his ass. It was as though he had read a concise history of Ireland on the back of a beer mat, then spewed it into one of his books. The Northern Ireland he talked about doesn't exist. It is bullcrap. The man was talking about things he didn't know anything about.

My point is this: It is folly for anyone to express strong political opinion on a matter that they don't know anything about, be it Northern Ireland, the Basque region, the Middle East, Ethiopia/Somalia etc.... Such opinions should be treated with the contempt they deserve.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#311226 - 12/30/06 01:08 PM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: Ed_Morris]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

sidesteping the emotional arguments I just want to correct a false statement:
Quote:

He also funded, hosted, and helped train Taliban and Bin Laden sympathisers.



No he didn't. back when the US was desparately trying to find that link between Hussein and Bin Laden (to give legitimacy to attacking Iraq), none were found - so they went the WMD route. In fact, not even enough circumstantial evidence to even reasonably suggest a link....thats why they took the submliminal route of making the appearance of a link by simply mentioning both over and over within the same sentance - giving the impression of a link, but no logicaly constructed connection.





Fair enough Ed, I stand corrected. the list you gave is more than enough to warrant his execution under current Iraqi law, and that is good enough for me. He was shown the same mercy by his people, that he had shown them over the years.

Machiaveli theorised that being a good leader, and being a popular leader are completely different things. I happen to find fault in all political systems and outlooks, and I dont believe Blair has done a lot for Britain on the domestic front (I couldnt say re. Bush), but I happen to think that the unswerving stance taken by both, irrespective of it doubtless costing them power at the next elections, shows a belief in what they have done, and why.

No matter what viewpoint you take on the rights and wrongs of the situation, I detest the criticism of our troops and their brave actions in terrible situations- that is the aspect of Marks posts that angered me so intenseley, the rest will be decided by history.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#311227 - 12/30/06 02:32 PM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: Cord]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
MATT, i will add the word "some" to my statment about the american public, as you correctly say not all, but the fact remains SOME of the american public supported terrorism on the UK mainland and in Ireland ( is that better prizefighter?)
Agreed the USA govenment did not demonstrate this support, but what was done to stop the people doing it? Or was this another case of american double standards?

------------------------------------
I find it strange how these posts take a life of thier own ,and original comments are changed and mutated. so to clarify:-

1.I asked if george bush will be tried for his crimes ( i corrected the term genocide)
2. I Have not crtisied the british military, just stated they should not be in Iraq doing the bidding of george Bush.
3.As i indicated im not a fan of Micheal Moore
4, SOME americans sponsered Terrorism in the Uk
5. AMerican political/finacial meddleing caused, ww2, coldwar,Korean war, Vietnam war, and the islamic terroist issue.
6. Saddam should have been hanged.
7. if you are a Moderator you can swear and insult other members of this forum without sanction

Strange that the USA can invade Panama in 89/90 but Iraq were outlaws to invade kuwait 6 months later...

mark

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#311228 - 12/30/06 02:45 PM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: mark]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Quote:


Agreed the USA govenment did not demonstrate this support, but what was done to stop the people doing it? Or was this another case of american double standards?






In the summer of 2005 the USA government banned all fundrasining in the United States by all parties (political and otherwise) with known links to paramilitaries in Northern Ireland. This included Sinn Fein and the Irish Republican Socialist Party.

Check your facts.

And it isn't better. I wish it never happened in the first place. I've seen first hand what it has done.

Yours

PrizeWRITER


Edited by Prizewriter (12/30/06 02:46 PM)
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#311229 - 12/30/06 02:55 PM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: Prizewriter]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
Thanks for that prizefighter, yes a knee jerk reaction from 9/11. but what about the 30 odd yrs before that?

I too have seen 1st hand what american sponsered terroism has done.

Again i aplogise for says it was just the English that suffered, that was a stupid error.

mark

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#311230 - 12/30/06 03:37 PM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: mark]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

thank you for agreeing to so many of my points, sorry it has struck such a nerve.





How exactly did i agree with you? Be specific.

Quote:

If our Military had behaved in Ireland as yours have in Iraq, i would think that the Worlds policeman would have given us a stern telling off.




Again what do you KNOW about how the US military has acted in Iraq? I asked you very specific questions regarding your sources and experience but you have yet to answer any of them. You just continue to ramble.

Quote:

"military full of baby killers" i missed that storey, I have seen some footage of dead babys after american bombings, is it a common occurance then?





What footage would that be? Your original point was that we were killing innocent people, something you seem to think would be by choice. You act as if we are there willfully killing families and children. What would you prefer, to let the 12yo girl strapped with explosives kill you and your team?

Quote:

"So yes you are entitled to your opinion and your ability to express it in a public forum" many thanks for that, but i guess only when you agree with my opinion?




Everyone is entitled to their opinion, right or wrong. At no point did i ever say it had to agree with mine. All i ask is for some kind of PROOF to back you claims. Something you have fully avoided so far. So here are some of those questions again.

1. Where did you get your statistics from?
2. What experience have you had in the military?
3. What have YOU actually seen of the middle east and what is going on there?

I have some advice for those who are in such an up roar about Bush, the Iraqi war or anything going on over seas. Don't believe everything you see on CNN or hear from some of these so called "experts". Half of the time they are all going off of hearsay. The media reports what they want to report, what they think will bring in the ratings. Some of it is true but not all of it.

For the record the UK military is not in Iraq doing Bush's bidding. I'm pretty sure it was the UK government that sent them there because they agreed with the reasoning.

Again if anyone doesn't agree with the war in Iraq...get off your but and do something. If all your going to do is sit at home and chastise people over things you have only heard about your not worth listening too.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#311231 - 12/30/06 04:29 PM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: mark]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

well maybe the term genocide was a bit strong, he hasnt manage to totally eliminate the people of the middle east.

But the Usa are trying:-.........
But you are right my term genocide was incorrect, i should have said wholesale slaughter of innocents for politcal/financial gain.




Riiight Mark, you post the above cr4p, inferring that US military are purposely targeting civilians, and then you get all 'I am Mr reasonable, I havent said anything out of line at all'

Britain went into the war of its own volition, we have many cultural and idealogical values in common with the USA, and you tend to find that through such a long close political relationship, countries that pose a threat to the US, will also be against the UK, and vice versa. Both countries wanted to sort all this out back in the 90's post Kuwait, its not like Bush strong-armed the UK into going in.

Your right not to like war- you would have to be insane to find joy in the thought of death and destruction, and your views on the rights and wrongs of us being there are your own; but unfounded bismirching of the name, reputation, and motives/actions of people prepared to lay their life down for their country is repellent.

For shame sir.

As for swearing at you, plenty of people use ***** and creative spelling to convey strength of feeling on here, not just myself as a mod; and quite frankly you deserved it. Got a problem with that, take it up with Matt, if your skin is thick enough to take the responses that you so obviously calculated your inflammatory posts would create, then just concentrate on providing Laff with the answers he requested, or better yet, just keep your drivel on this topic to yourself.

Cord.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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