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#311202 - 12/30/06 03:20 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: Stormdragon]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
well maybe the term genocide was a bit strong, he hasnt manage to totally eliminate the people of the middle east.

But the Usa are trying:-

Asked if they had ever killed an Iraqi noncombatant, 28 percent of the 794 Marines surveyed said yes. Two-thirds reported killing an enemy combatant. Fourteen percent of 861 soldiers from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division reported they had killed at least one Iraqi noncombant

On October 19, the New York Times took a step toward settling on a civilian casualty number by reporting that "the best estimates" of private groups and independent news organizations are in "the 10,000 to 15,000 range."

I admit, Bush has a long way to go before he gets to the 2 million civilians that his predcessors managed to kill in vietnam.

But you are right my term genocide was incorrect, i should have said wholesale slaughter of innocents for politcal/financial gain.

Sorry for the mistake

mark

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#311203 - 12/30/06 03:47 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: mark]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
You haven't been in the soldiers'/Marine's situation, you haven't experienced what they have and so with all do respect I dont think you have much place to comment on it.
Well, if you have served in a combat military role and seen combat than ok but I doubt it. It really isn't all black and white.
You realize over there many of those 'noncombatants' have been trained and taught to kill our people and have at times pulled out weapons in attampts to kill our boys? It's kill or be killed. That's the nature of war. It's a sad ugly truth, but it's still the truth. I dont believe we should still be there. Taking out Saddam was not something we needed to do but it probably was for the better howeve I think we should have left and completely pulled out a very long time ago. Nonetheless we haven't and so those soldiers/Marines have to be ready to kill combatants as well as "nonecombatants" if that's what it takes to survive. Whether they want to be there or not is irrelevant, they re there and must live with that and accept all that it entails.
I know if some women or child suddenly pulled out a gun or grenade and tried to kill me I would like to think I would kill them first without hesitation. If the dont want to die they should be more careful.
Now their are of of course a number of our guys who have genuinely murdered innocents and for that they should be brought to justice.
However I highly doubt Bush told them to just go and kill whoever. And I highly doubt their superiors said to just go kill whoever.
You know about the Marines awhile back who gave some Iraqi children their good MRE's and took the crap food the children were meant to get?

I think the news is only telling half the story. "wholesale slaughter of innocents"? Yeah ok whatever you say. I think the media is extremely biased as much as Bush and his supporters. Tell the full story and know the facts before commenting on something like this please.


Edited by Stormdragon (12/30/06 04:02 AM)
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#311204 - 12/30/06 04:00 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: mark]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Mark,

Your inflammatory comments are designed to illicit the response and provoke the political aggression that we are trying to avoid here. Please take your agenda elsewhere.


Edited by Fletch1 (12/30/06 04:04 AM)
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#311205 - 12/30/06 04:08 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: Stormdragon]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
Yawn!!

If they werent there in the 1st place,they wouldnt have to "kill or be killed," simple.

As for telling the full story.. that would be a long post, i really dont have that amount of time to waste...

but here a few words:- Enron, Halliburton Co, ChevronTexaco, Foster Wheeler Energy Limited


As for:- "You haven't been in the soldiers'/Marine's situation, you haven't experienced what they have and so with all do respect I dont think you have much place to comment on it. "

err, what do you actually know about my expereience?
also, I am in a position to judge, just as you seemed to in a position to judge me. Its called free speech, I know the US military are trying to stamp it out all around the world, but europe is still hanging on to it, just...

mark

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#311206 - 12/30/06 04:17 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: mark]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I'm not judging oyu as a person, I'm saying you can but shouldn't speak about things you haven't experienced. Your right I dont know of your experience so please enlighten me.
If we were only concerned with oil we'd drill under the dead sea which has a massive oil store form what I've heard.
I never said they should be there, though taking down Saddam was a good thing it wasn't something we neccessairly "needed" to do but we did it and it was good I think but we should've left right after or after setting something up in it's place rather which is done.
Dont judge the guys there if you haven't been through the [censored]. You haven't earned your right to criticise as I haven't yet.


Edited by Stormdragon (12/30/06 04:20 AM)
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#311207 - 12/30/06 04:27 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: mark]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I would just like to say that mark's 'Michael Moore light' comments are not indicative of all in the UK. It is also well established that much of Moore's 'facts' have been discredited.

As for 'friendly fire' and 'innocent casualties', in war it has always happened. Less total people have died in the middle east campaign in the last 5 years than died in 1 day of WW1 or 2. You think that in the Battle of Britain no allied bullets hit any allied planes? Give me a break.

My only regret in this whole situation is that the US and UK did not just carry on in to iraq on the back of Desert Storm and get rid of him then. Of course the UN wouldn't back it, so he was alowed a decade to re-inforce his military.

Make no mistake, Saddam had a legitemate agenda that involved aggression towards the west. He constructed the 'supergun' based on cr4ppy plans- that ingendered nothing but derision at the time, but it did show a worrying intent. He also funded, hosted, and helped train Taliban and Bin Laden sympathisers. You remember Bin Laden and the whole 9/11 thing dont you?!

Maybe you think the US involvment in the pacific post Pearl Harbour was all about fishing rights?

Glad Saddam has been given the strongest punishment possible under law. Sorry that he will inevitably become a martyr to some.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#311208 - 12/30/06 04:52 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: Leo_E_49]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Quote:

I somehow fail to see how burning the corpse could prevent him becoming a martyr.


No body, no grave. Nowhere for followers to gather at etc.. thats what was on the news anyway
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#311209 - 12/30/06 04:53 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: Cord]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I rest my case.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#311210 - 12/30/06 05:01 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: crablord]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

Quote:

I somehow fail to see how burning the corpse could prevent him becoming a martyr.


No body, no grave. Nowhere for followers to gather at etc.. thats what was on the news anyway




I suppose that's a good point.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#311211 - 12/30/06 05:03 AM Re: Saddam Hussein executed [Re: Leo_E_49]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
They could always erext shrines. We dont have the bodies of plenty of martyrs but still honor them.
The most well known example being Jesus christ though he didn't do the same horrible things as Hussein.
Another would be Socrates.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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