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#309318 - 12/20/06 02:34 AM Introducing myself
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
Hey all im new to this forum but i've found it all very interesting and sum of it even useful. I am currently a brown belt 2nd Kup and have been training for about 10months, i am from australia and my style is Rhee Taekwondo,i train under Master Chong Chul Rhee the founder of Taekwondo in Australia. So just though i'd introduce myself and i look forward to discussing my passion off martial arts with other people like me :P

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#309319 - 12/20/06 02:38 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Welcome to the forum!
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#309320 - 12/20/06 04:07 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
G'day mate, congratulations on winning the Ashes (grrrr!)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#309321 - 12/20/06 04:31 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Hi, good to meet you. Can't wait to read your opinions.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#309322 - 12/20/06 10:59 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
FightingFeet Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Singapore
Nice to meet u here. Welcome.
_________________________
No Matter what, justice must exist.

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#309323 - 12/27/06 04:37 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
sgtZipper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 25
Loc: the Netherlands
10 months? 2nd kub? It took me 11 years to become black belt hahaha (ok I took a break of 2 years when I was 14) but still... damn
Anyway, have a nice stay;)

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#309324 - 12/27/06 05:19 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: sgtZipper]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
haha yer i train hard and my instructor sees that so i guess he feels he can promote me. 11 years? wow the average is usually 3-4. Can i ask wat Type of Taekwon-do u train in Zipper?

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#309325 - 12/27/06 05:43 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
sgtZipper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 25
Loc: the Netherlands
Sure, I train Ch'ang Hon ITF style.
I got my first kub in 2000, but I got bored, so I stopped in 2001. In 2004 I picked it up again.
When I returned lots had changed, our school was changing from 'style' or bond. So when I returned I had to learn the 'sine-wave' and other stuff, but my siter got her 1st dan, so that's why I HAD to get it too haha. (she started doing taekwon-do at the age of 14, I started when I was 7 )
When I returned I wasn't that fanatic, I trained once or twice a week, sometimes I didn't train for a whole month....
But I became Dutch Tuls Champion in 2005, while I wasn't training a lot, so that got me motivated to do more.
Turning 18 also made me think it would be a good age to get my 1st dan.
I have my 1st dan since May 28th.
So technically I could have been 1st dan waaay earlier (not as fast as you got your 2nd kub), but I'm glad about the way it went.
Ok... you didn't ask for my life story sorry

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#309326 - 12/27/06 07:07 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: sgtZipper]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
hahaha no i didint but good to hear it anywayz lol, my instructor thinks i should b able to go for my blackbelt in november of 2007 so that should b cool, i do Rhee Taekwon-Do i dont no if uve heard of it b4 but we practice non-contact full power sparring and we do not enter into competition at all. It is a pure martial art thats main objective is self-defence and defence of the weak. I'd b interested to no if u have ever heard of Rhee Taekwon-Do or of it's Founder Master Chong Chul Rhee and wat is the Dutch Tuls, out of curiosity?

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#309327 - 12/27/06 10:06 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Quote:

non-contact full power sparring




Isn't that oxymoronic? I mean I see the concept, but surely you can't actually go 'full power' if it's non-contact?
_________________________
My Workout Log

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#309328 - 12/27/06 12:07 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
sgtZipper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 25
Loc: the Netherlands
'Tuls' are the forms/patterns of ITF taekwon-do.
There are no 'Dutch tuls', just tuls;)
I meant I got 1st place on the Dutch Open championship (in 2005)
Ow and yes, I've heard of Rhee taekwon-do before, but I think I saw it on the internet...


Edited by sgtZipper (12/27/06 12:38 PM)

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#309329 - 12/27/06 12:19 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

hahaha no i didint but good to hear it anywayz lol, my instructor thinks i should b able to go for my blackbelt in november of 2007 so that should b cool, i do Rhee Taekwon-Do i dont no if uve heard of it b4 but we practice non-contact full power sparring and we do not enter into competition at all. It is a pure martial art thats main objective is self-defence and defence of the weak. I'd b interested to no if u have ever heard of Rhee Taekwon-Do or of it's Founder Master Chong Chul Rhee and wat is the Dutch Tuls, out of curiosity?




Hi and welcome to the forums.

It doesn't strike me as odd anymore,but why such a rush to get blackbelt? Will you be any better after two years of training if you were still a whitebelt?

You have been training since February or March of 06' and will be testing for blackbelt in November 07'. That is just ludicrous. How much are you paying for your blackbelt?

I don't care how good you are or how much you train, that is pure mcdojoism.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#309330 - 12/27/06 12:52 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
sgtZipper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 25
Loc: the Netherlands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7PEMGuA6tw haha found this commercial, is this your master? Or just spoof?

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#309331 - 12/27/06 01:05 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
stormbringer Offline
Extraordinaire

Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 277
Loc: Florida
Rhee TKD as in Chong Chul Rhee, not Jhoon Rhee correct?
_________________________
Brown Belt. Should have my Black by Summer 2008. Jhoon Rhee system

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#309332 - 12/27/06 01:10 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: stormbringer]
sgtZipper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 25
Loc: the Netherlands
Oh ok, sorry. Is it true Jhoon Rhee trained with Bruce lee?

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#309333 - 12/27/06 05:34 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: stormbringer]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

Rhee TKD as in Chong Chul Rhee, not Jhoon Rhee correct?




O.K. ,

I held my tongue long enough ! I even PM'd another member of the forum as to my concern about Chong Chul Rhee (yes that is who he is refering to, not Jhoon Rhee)and as should I respond on the forum or not. My first red flag was the Brown belt after 10 mos and then the reference to the "Founder of TKD" in Austrailia. I googled Chong Chul Rhee's name and went to the website, www.rhee-taekwondo.com.au/ . They practice a portion of the Chang Hon ITF tuls.

Everything that Jasperdaman has stated is on the website, Self Defense, founder in Australia etc. etc. Now I apologize to jasperdaman for what I am about to say here as he seems to be very enthusiastic, but everything I read and see on the site says Mcdojang to me.

Mr. Rhee seems to be very physically gifted, but what he is teaching, at least forms wise is from the ITF and not orginal. It would be my guess that General Choi had somebody in Austrailia as an ITF Ambassodor to spread TKD, Whether or not it was Mr. Rhee, I do not know. Maybe Master Weiss or ITFunity can confirm this. I have had many conversations with ITF people from Austrailia via internet forums (and had the privledge of meeting one gentleman several years ago as he traveled thru the states), and Mr. Rhee's name never came up. The only Rhee I am familiar with is GM Rhee Ki Ha in Great Britain and GM Jhoon Rhee here in the states (yes, I am aware that there are probably hundreds, but as I said, with whom I am familiar).

My question to jasperdaman is, has your Mr. Rhee ever referenced to the General or Chang Hon ITF ? Has he given you the history of the patterns you are learning ? I am not looking to insult you or your instructor, but I have reservations as to what I saw on the site. Any insight you can lend would be very much appreciated.

VDJ

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#309334 - 12/27/06 05:36 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: sgtZipper]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

Oh ok, sorry. Is it true Jhoon Rhee trained with Bruce lee?




Yes and he recently released a book about 1 or 2 years ago titled "Bruce Lee and I".

VDJ

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#309335 - 12/27/06 09:16 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
The more I look at this site the more bothered I become. I just finished looking at the "Womens self defense" page and it tells you that size and strength don't matter. Uh YEAH IT DOES !! What it should be telling them is how to compensate for the difference ! I don't know, maybe its just me !

VDJ

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#309336 - 12/28/06 12:30 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: sgtZipper]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
wow so much to reply to haha, ok for my black belti am paying only $100 or so maybe $200, ive heard of people paying into the thousands for a black belt before which is ridiculous. To reply to u VDJ i take no offense to any of ur comments, ur opinion is ur own. Ok Yes i am talking about Master Chong Chul RHee not Jhoon Rhee because he is In America. The site u have been reading VDJ is not an official site but a site set up by im guessing an instructor in south australia. The only official comments about Rhee Taekwon-Do i have found is in an interview Master Rhee did in the 1990's, so whatever is on this site is mostly whoever made the sites opinion. Yes i no i have moved really fast up to brown belt and if all goes well i should have my black belt 1st Dan in about 2 years. The average of sum1 getting a black belt ive read is about 3 years. A black Belt is given when the student is compotent in the basics, and u shouldnt have to w8 like 6 years to get ur black belt if u r at that standard. I no that in Rhee Taekwon-Do after you get to ur first dan it takes a lot longer to get to 2nd dan etc. it is not rushed at all like i see in sum other MA when 20 year olds and such r 4th dans or sumthin stupid like that. From my knowledge and what i have heard and read i am quite sure that Master Rhee trained under General Choi but i am not 100% and i have not yet had the honour of having an in-depth talk with Master Rhee 1 on 1 yet. Once i receive my black belt i with the other black belts get to have dinner with him after gradings every 3 months, so i hope to learn alot then. If u have any other questions i'd b more then happy to answer them to the best of my abilties.

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#309337 - 12/28/06 11:51 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Jasperdaman,

I disagree ! It does look like the official site as it lists all of his schools and instructors as well as a picture of all the newly promoted BB's (and if ONE school promoted THAT many BB's, I would definitley say GET OUT NOW !). But if you do not believe it to be the official site, than I kindly ask that you either post it or PM it to me if you have it. I am interested to see if it contradicts the link I have posted.

Thanks,

VDJ

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#309338 - 12/28/06 08:47 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
that site says south australia and those BB r all from around South australia, 20 BB promoted in 1 year doesnt sound all that many to me in the whole of south australia. Master Rhee does not have an official website at all, u will find many different sites and thy are from all round asutralia, keep searching on the net and ull see wat i mean :P

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#309339 - 12/29/06 11:26 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Well let me put it this way then. This site bares his name and is promoting his schools, there is misinformation on the site as well as lack of information on the site. No one is stating that they are displaying this site on his behalf or w/o his knowledge. If he does not make the claims that are on the site, he should state so publicly as so he is not judged by them. If he lets them stand as such, then it should be safe to assume that he does not dispute them.

VDJ

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#309340 - 12/30/06 12:40 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
i doubt a man like Master Rhee has time to search through the internet for sites about his art lol. O well man it's been nice discussing this anywayz but i think we just g2 agree to disagree ay :P

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#309341 - 12/30/06 02:16 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Well I can not speak to whether he was the pioneer or father of TKD in Ausralia. I will attempt to find out more. However, I find no record of Master Rhee, Chong Chul from 1984 forward. It should be noted that a Master Yun, Young Kyu, an early disciple of the Founder, first in Malyasia, then Australia, was an 8th degree back in 1984. I believe he is in the enclylopedia. He seperated from the ITF later on. Also, there was a Rhee, Young Choi, from Windsor, Canada as well & I am sure there were others.
I don't know what defines father or pioneer, I guess the first or trailblazer. He would be in the running, if he was in Australia in the 1960s. It would be interesting to know more. By the looks of the website, he was either ITF or Chang Hon at some dated point.

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#309342 - 12/30/06 02:35 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: sgtZipper]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

10 months? 2nd kub? It took me 11 years to become black belt hahaha (ok I took a break of 2 years when I was 14) but still... damn




That sounds plausible. It took me 9 years. I'd say that 4-5 is standard though. It varies from school to school, there are different standards everywhere.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#309343 - 12/30/06 02:45 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
Dudley32 Offline
master of disaster

Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 482
Loc: Indiana
Quote:

we do not enter into competition at all.




10 months to brown belt... I wonder why...

Matt
_________________________
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect.

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#309344 - 12/30/06 08:30 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Dudley32]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
Theres no need for personal attacks dudley, really it's pretty immature....

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#309345 - 12/31/06 09:17 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Seriously, does anyone really care when he gets his black belt? As long as the quality of instruction is decent (which only Jasper, or someone else in his class, can say) then I really don't get this obsession with a piece of cloth. Many Korean schools have a short amount of time to get a black belt too (2 years or so). For the record, a black belt means you are a good student who as got a hold on the basics; not that you are a superb fighter. I can't help but feel people are getting in a twist over a totally irrelevent matter.
_________________________
My Workout Log

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#309346 - 12/31/06 09:47 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: TimBlack]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
I agree Tim. Poor old jaspa just comes on to say and introduce himself and immediately gets the rubber glove treatment about his club and master.

No wonder so few people fill in profiles.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#309347 - 12/31/06 11:07 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: trevek]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Agreed!

Dudley:
practice doesn't make perfect, it only makes us better. Perfection does not exist, unless it is someone's personal view of their Creator.

TimBlack:
BB can mean a lot of things to many different people. I do share your idea that is is a beginning, someone who has grasped the basics.
Happy New Year!

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#309348 - 12/31/06 12:10 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: trevek]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

I agree Tim. Poor old jaspa just comes on to say and introduce himself and immediately gets the rubber glove treatment about his club and master.

No wonder so few people fill in profiles.





I am not trying to "Rubber Glove" anybody ! I first stated that I did not want to insult Jasper only stated that I had questions and reservations about some of the claims that he had stated on here about his Master. Why is it O.K to question some but not others ?If you go the "Martial Arts" forum, there is a whole thing about Frank Dux and his claims. There are even those that debate the legtimacy of General Choi. So why is it not O.K. to question this gentleman ? Jasperdaman, it is your Masters responsability to know such things that are out there about him. To just shrug it off as he is to busy to know such things is, in my opinion, a way of saying that you may not want to know the truth. From the things that I have read, and the interviews that are on these sites with Mr. Rhee, give me concerns. He teaches half of the ITF patterns, developed by the General, but no where do I see that he mentions the General at all. The one site makes a statement that the art of Tae Kyon is now known as TKD. To many things give me doubts. Again, he may be gifted physically, from what I see is being taught by whats listed is in my opinion, bastardizing. The only thing I have asked from Jasper is a confirmation of this is what is really taught at these dojangs ? If these sites are slandering what he believes and teaches, then I would want to think he would want to spend some time researching them !

VDJ


Edited by VDJ (12/31/06 12:13 PM)

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#309349 - 12/31/06 12:42 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
True, I wasn't really having a go at your questions (you did, as you say, state you weren't trying to insult him) but it did seem that there was a lot of pressure flying for jasper to justify his master when he obviously doesn't have the background info to do that. He's obviously feeling a little put out by some of the comments.

Perhaps it would be better to contact Mr Rhee or his website directly.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#309350 - 12/31/06 03:24 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: trevek]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Point well taken !

VDJ

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#309351 - 12/31/06 04:31 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
I can see that there may be questions about how legitimate/good jaspa's tuition may be... but we don't really know. I think we should encourage people to check that their instructors are good and respectable, but recently I've begun to resent the sheer amount of distrust going on. Personally, I don't really care that much whether Jaspa's training is top-notch or not; he's obviously enjoying it, and it certainly isn't harmful. As Jaspa gets better he may suddenly realise that the school he's at isn't as good as he thought it was - on the other hand, he may realise just how good it is.

I don't think it's possible for us to pass judgement on his school simply from the website and what the 'official' curriculum is; often you have very good instructors within poor organisations, and poor instructors within good organisations. In the case of well-known frauds, there is usually a fair amount of criticism to those who have actually been trained by the individual/org; in this case, since all we have is the briefest of brief glances into the practices of Rhee and his org, I really don't feel we are in a position to judge.

So, here's the upshot: I say that, from now on, we: 1) Give instructors/orgs the 'benefit of the doubt (ie. not deliberately trying to find stuff that's wrong), 2) Stop talking constantly about belts, 3) Leave a sticky (maybe in the 'READ ME FIRST thread') outlining the basic ways to spot good vs. bad instruction, and 4) Stop questioning everyone new's quality of instruction. It's just not worth it.

_________________________
My Workout Log

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#309352 - 01/01/07 12:30 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: TimBlack]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
I agree fully with Tim, i'm not so concerned about wat belt im wearing as i am how my technique,speed and power are. I'd happiliy go without a belt if need be aslong as i can see im getting better. I also agree that u cant really properley comment on sum1's martial art until uve been to a few lessons and talked to the instructors there. And Tae Kyon defientaley isnt TKD lol i dont no wat the guy who wrote that was on. As u no i have been training for 10 months now or so and i really dont have that much background to speak of so commenting all ur questions is very hard for me but i try my best :P My instructors r great people and great instructors and i have alot of respect for them. If ur ever down in australia VDJ gimme a shout and i'd be more then happy to take u to a couple classes with me

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#309353 - 01/03/07 11:50 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
I checked with a friend of mine, from down under that part of the planet. He said GM Chong Chul Rhee left the ITF back in 1978. He didn't have much more to say at this time. So as I thought from the website, he was ITF at a time. he may have been one of the early ones in that area. Please ask him to give some more information on his history. I think it would be kool to see it.
Thanks & continued good luck.

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#309354 - 01/06/07 12:56 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: ITFunity]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Master Rhee Chong Chul
Was hand picked during his service in the Korean Marines to learn the then new South Korean military sponsored martial art and then teach Taekwondo. Master Rhee Chong Chul is one of the 1st x 12 Korean Masters http://www.itfnz.org.nz/ref/documents/masters.htm under General Choi to be sent out by the South Korean Government around the world to spread the Korean art. Master Rhee’s fierce military background, amazing Taekwondo skills and leadership ability are common knowledge to most of the Korean community.

General Choi/Master Rhee Chong Chul
Most of the original Masters ceased all association with General Choi when he defected to the Communist North in 1973 (as all the original Masters were all South Korean’s & most had families still residing in SK ) http://www.mainetkdassociation.org/tradhist.htm as a result General Choi wrote most of the original Masters (that did not follow him after his defection) out of ITF history. The few like Master Rhee Ki Ha that retuned to General Choi after he restabilised him self in Canada still remain in the “official” ITF history books.

Rhee Taekwondo School
Rhee Taekwondo still teaches the original Chang-Hon style (no Sine-wave & competition). Hyungs taught are the original Choi-ji Hyung in original formal order (pre General Choi’s 1973 split, and ITF rebirth & reorganisation in Canada 1980). Rhee Taekwondo is self defence originated.

Rhee TKD Black Belt
The average person training 3 supervised nights/lessons a week, that is fit, flexible, listens and follows instruction will achieve black belt in 3 to 5 years. However some gifted individuals have attainted a Rhee Taekwondo black belt quicker than 3 years but they are few.

Rhee TKD websites
There is no official Rhee Taekwondo website, Master Rhee is the head of the organisation and he doesn’t like or trust the Internet as per most elder people. However each region may run their own web sites for advertising purposes if they believe they are necessary. However most regions don’t but a small number do. These sites are not regulated by Master Rhee as he believes each region Sabumnim should do the right thing, as they are his students.

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#309355 - 01/06/07 01:36 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Thank you very much! I actually saw the info on the 1st link already. I didn't realize he was on there. Thats wonderful & thanks again for sharing it.
The 2nd link has some misinformation. The ITF was actually headquartered in Canada, from 1972 to 1985. It was moved to Vienna, Austria in 1985, to allow better access to socialist, communist & other Countries located in that region, as it was already in Asia & N. America. In fact, I think its Constitution states that it must remain there permantly. Ambassador Choi, lived in Canada & was a Canadian citizen till his death in 2002. He did leave at the end of his life, to die in the homeland of his birthplace. He never defected there, but he did exile himself to Canada in 1972.

The 1st time he went to NK was 1979. He then set up the plans to introduce his art there the next year (1980). So his leaving SK in 1972, had nothing to do with NK. It was because of the political strife between him & the dictator of SK Gen. Park, who took over in May 1961 via a military coup. He remained in power till he was assainated by his own KCIA chief in 1978. Also, GM Rhee, Ki Ha, never left the Ambassador. He was loyal to him till the end & has followed his dying wish till this day.

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#309356 - 01/06/07 04:39 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: ITFunity]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Thank you for response. General Choi was obviously a talented martial artist and leader as he was instrumental along with the South Korean Government in the birth of Taekwondo. General Choi has my respect however if you read further than your ITF encyclopedia’s, your friends advice and General Choi interviews the truth is a very sorry affair. General Choi rightly or wrongly is still known as traitor in South Korea, no matter how it has been written since by the ITF faithful. Fact, he was never permitted back into South Korea after his defection to the communist north in the 70’s. Here is a more ITF sympathetic take of events http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/SECTION2_ITFrifting.html
Have you very asked yourself why you or other ITF-er’s do not know of the first class of TKD Masters and the important work they ALL did in formalised TKD as an international martial arts system.
Which of the “official” ITF organisations are truthful = Canada, Vienna or North Korea – I wonder how they have written their history of events following General Choi death - in their claim to be the ‘Official” ITF body.
What does it matter, if you have a strong Sabum and a dedicated Master, us students of the art should put all our energies into our training. Good luck to everyone training in any Taekowndo school, traditional, freestyle, progressive as long as they are training in the sincere spirit that TKD was born from and are personally moving forward in their development!

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#309357 - 01/06/07 11:20 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Yes. I have found that the more open I remain & the more research I do, the more obvious it becomes that there were many that were instrumental in the development & spread of TKD. I appricate that link & have read it before.
It is just that he did not go to NK till 1979. Then in 1980 he brought the team there. That was the final straw for many of his loyal instructors. I do think that history will eventually sort everything out. It usually does. However, time is needed.
I also wouldn't characterize it as a defection to the north.

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#309358 - 01/06/07 10:08 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: ITFunity]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
Thnx Robb uv'e cleared my name of Mcdojo lol So im gifted ay? lol it's news to me but thats cool :P Thnx for the information it's even sum new news for me.

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#309359 - 01/07/07 02:18 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Hello jasperdaman
Yes you have to laugh when people start throwing around the McDojo (or McDojang) insult as soon as they know a TKD school is large. Don’t get me wrong there are some poor excuses for martial arts schools (their students are normally the ones throwing the insults) out there wether they are large or small schools.
However in regards to Rhee Taekwondo, the reason it is Australasia’s largest martial arts school is based on a few very simple facts, some being -
1. Master Rhee Chong Chul started Rhee Taekwondo in the late 196O’s with the assistance of his 2 brothers, Master Rhee Chong Hyup (also one of the 1st of the 12 TKD Korean Masters) & Master Rhee Chong Yoon (an X-South Korean Army Officer & military trained TKD Master). On orders from the South Korean Government immigrated to Australia from Malaysia and Singapore where they had had their 1st TKD teaching post. When they immigrating to Australia they also brought along some of their top Malaysian TKD students, including Master Low (who is still training and teaching under Rhee banner in South Australia) to assist in establishing the school. The RTKD School has been run continuously under these Masters since the late 1960’s (almost 40 years), so Rhee TKD has concrete leadership stability.
2. Master Rhee Chong Chul and Rhee TKD Masters have taught the same Chong-Hon TKD style he was taught in the military – fast, hard hitting, powerful, effective self defence, he hasn’t deviated. So the school has had had total consistency for over 35 years.
3. Master Rhee Chong Chul is still very much a military man – he runs his school as such, school runs by strict martial etiquette and member/student accountability is a priority. All Rhee TKD Dojangs have order and respect, so they stay strong and have the public’s respect which keeps them very popular in numbers and reputation.
4. Rhee TKD has one head of Organisation - Master Rhee Chong Chul, so RTKD school has no political back bitting or favouritism, those that train hard and maintain/increase standards are rewarded. No attention is given to talkers.
5. Master Rhee Chong Chul visits all regions (geographical dojang groups) to conduct grading exams (others that the regions run by the other Rhee brother Masters) every 3 months. With over 500 Dojangs in Australia and New Zealand it means he is travelling 11 months of every year, which he has done for the past 35 years non-stop. This way he keeps standards high. He is very exact on what is expected, those that don’t measure up are not promoted in rank and told what to work on for next grading assessment in 3 months. Sabum or Yudanja not up to standard are given 1 warning to improve and reassessed on his next visit.
6. Master Rhee advises all students, if they have any issues they can not sort out with their direct senior or regional Sabumnim they may contact him direct, as wether they are a 10th kup or 6th Dan, they are all his student and he will sort out. This direct line of course keeps everyone honest and concentrating on their own training and matters.
7. Rhee Taekwondo is a martial arts organisation and not a social club, students train to grow strong and if they enjoy training that is excellent however Rhee TKD is not for ‘fun”.
8. Dan ranking are not handed out lightly in Rhee TKD. Dan Promotions are based on TKD ability, knowledge, loyalty and martial maturity.

These are some of the reasons for Rhee Taekwondo’s ongoing popularity for the past 35 and why it has gown during over time to the size it is now.

jasperdaman in regards to being gifted, well if you are I commend you, however Dojang Sabum motivate different individuals different ways in the student’s best interest. You are not a Rhee TKD black belt yet, remember when you do sit that grading in front of Master Rhee, the regions Sabum and Yudanja are going to make you pay (with sweat, bruises & maybe blood)for every single inch of that Rhee Taekwondo black belt as is the tradition. So get very fit and remember to keep your guard up cause they will come in hard and fast at you mate. All the best with it though, the secret is all in your preparation.

To everyone else, enjoy your Taekwondo training, if you train under an old Korean Master or a young freestyle hot shot, as long you train hard and are enjoying it you are spending your time positively and not wasting it negatively.

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#309360 - 01/07/07 02:50 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
Yer i no i have to prepare well for my BB grading, i no how the gradings go, i was the board holder and i was one of the primary sparrers against a man going for his BB, it was a great experience and honour to spar infront of Master Rhee. Can i ask u Robb wat MA u train in, u seem to no alot about Rhee Taekwon-Do. Where abouts in Australia do u live?

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#309361 - 01/07/07 09:18 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Great info!
Thanks.
Is Master Low still with them (Rhee)? Is he related to the GM Low that is now a 9th degree BB with one of the ITFs?

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#309362 - 01/07/07 06:16 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: ITFunity]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Hello ITFunity
Master Low Vernon http://www.rhee-taekwondo.com.au/instructors.htm is of whom I referred to in above, a great martial artist, exceptional teacher and a corner stone of the Rhee Taekwondo organisation.
Grand Master Low Ming (ITF) http://www.digitalstorm.com.au/tkd/contents2.htm of who you maybe referring was promoted to black belt by Master Rhee Chong Chul and was one of the first Rhee TKD Sabum in Western Australian. However Master Low Ming moved about until he established his own school (Low Taekwondo) in Western Australia which he still heads today. I also understand he is a great Master and is very highly respected.
Both Low’s are Malaysian, I also understand the head Rhee Taekwondo Sabumnim in Western Australia is also Malayisian, Sabumnim Chew.

Hello jasperfaman
I’m a fellow Rhee Taekwondo member and black belt. My Sabumnim has been one of Master Rhee students for a very long time and regularly engages Master Rhee in conversation regarding all things Taekwondo at our gradings, after grading Master/Sabum training’s & grading dinners. So our region black belt group are all privileged to be apart these technical, historical, theory, martial, philosophical, etc conversations in person. You can also find much information in your membership book and literature.

Gomapsupnida

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#309363 - 01/07/07 08:57 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Thanks again. The other Master Low is from the ITF-NK. His father was just promoted to 9th degree.
Good luck & welcome!

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#309364 - 08/30/07 02:44 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Hello VDJ, ITFunity & Jasperman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhee_Taekwon-Do

A google alert bough me back to this thread (as noted below).

Mr VDJ due to your earlier disparaging comments on this FA thread regarding Master Rhee Chong Chul you maybe interested in this wiki page ( as noted above) regarding Rhee Tae Kwon Do (Australia), trust it fills in some blanks for you. Cheers.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Sent: Saturday, 18 August 2007 9:33:23 AM
Google Web Alert for: rhee chong hyup
FightingArts.com Forums: Introducing myself
Master Rhee Chong Chul started Rhee Taekwondo in the late 196O's with the assistance of his 2 brothers, Master Rhee Chong Hyup (also one of the 1st of the ...

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#309365 - 08/30/07 08:40 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Thanks Robb for taking the time to do some research!

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#309366 - 08/30/07 08:52 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Great info!
Thanks

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#309367 - 08/30/07 09:53 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

Hello VDJ, ITFunity & Jasperman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhee_Taekwon-Do

A google alert bough me back to this thread (as noted below).

Mr VDJ due to your earlier disparaging comments on this FA thread regarding Master Rhee Chong Chul you maybe interested in this wiki page ( as noted above) regarding Rhee Tae Kwon Do (Australia), trust it fills in some blanks for you. Cheers.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Sent: Saturday, 18 August 2007 9:33:23 AM
Google Web Alert for: rhee chong hyup
FightingArts.com Forums: Introducing myself
Master Rhee Chong Chul started Rhee Taekwondo in the late 196O's with the assistance of his 2 brothers, Master Rhee Chong Hyup (also one of the 1st of the ...




I have seen this all before and I do not consider wikipedia a reliable source for anything as anybody can go in an edit the contents. I don't know why this thread has been thrusted to the front again as it looks like its last post was back in January. Some of my questions have been answered but I still have concerns on some of what I had learned. Doesn't matter, its old hat anyway !

VDJ

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#309368 - 08/31/07 08:17 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Hello VDJ.

Interesting reply obviously as I stated the reason for the repost was the google alert and the wiki page I just found recently. I thought the wiki article (I have checked most of the article references and they are reliable) maybe of interest to those that had shown an interest or made comments about Rhee TKD Australia on this thread, positive or negative (as in your case Mr VDJ).

Skimming back on your posts “Tiger Killer” you seem to always have an underlying condescending tone, which if that mindset works for you, you are a successful and your life is moving forward then fine. However if you can indulge me by please advising your rank, school and Master to help me try to understand where you are coming from my friend. I am not taking the p-ss (as we say in OZ) or want a flame off, I would genuinely like to try to comprehend the angle of your martial arts beliefs, misguided or not in regards to your posted comments/views on RHEE TKD & Master Rhee Chong Chul.

To be fair, I advise - I am a member of the Rhee Taekwondo (Australia), my Master Instructor is Master Rhee Chong Chul and my rank is Sabum (Black belt teacher). Robb is my real name, this year is my 19th year of continuos training as a Rhee Taekwondo student. I studied a few different martial arts, striking and throwing styles (Japanese, Korean & Western) before making an informed choice to join RHEE TKD many years ago and have never been happier.

“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” Bruce Lee

I look forward to your response Mr VDJ, Cheers.

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#309369 - 08/31/07 10:52 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Interesting reply obviously as I stated the reason for the repost was the google alert and the wiki page I just found recently. I thought the wiki article (I have checked most of the article references and they are reliable) maybe of interest to those that had shown an interest or made comments about Rhee TKD Australia on this thread,.......Cheers.




Sir I found the link very informative. Thanks again for posting it. If you are able to answer these questions, please do. You can also feel free to PM me if you prefer.

When did Master Rhee leave the ITF/Gen Choi? Do you know why? What ITF rank certificates does he have? When did he get 8th degree? Why has he stayed an 8th, as obviously he would be a very deserving 9th degree, given his extensive experience & history as a true pioneer?
Does he keep in contact with GM Young Ku Yun? When & why did he leave the ITF/General Choi & what was his ITF ranks? Who is considered senior of the 2?

Thanks!

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#309370 - 08/31/07 11:53 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: ITFunity]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Thanks for interest Supremor & ITFunity

G’Day ITFunity , no problems as you have always seemed genuine I will share and try to best answer your queries from my knowledge and research of my fellow RTKD senior members via PM. I won’t post due nature of nature of subject as do not want to be disrespectful to any Masters. Cheers

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#309371 - 09/01/07 12:27 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
http://www.taekwondopioneers.com/

Sir thank you so much for your informative reply. I do really appreciate it. Above is the website I mentioned in my reply.
Thanks again!

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#309372 - 09/02/07 07:11 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: ITFunity]
chosunitf Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 6
In response to your questions.

Master Rhee, Chong Chul was a member of the ITF up until the late 70's. He certainly wasn't a member in 1980. His rank with the ITF was 6th Dan. He was apparently dismissed from the ITF as he was not willing to pay his dues. Basically he was accused of keeping all the money for himself and did not send any memberships fees or Dan certificate fees to the ITF. He was of lower rank than his brother Rhee, Chong Hyup who actually appears on the ITF plaque (bottom left hand figure). He received his 8th dan in about 1984 and has a WTF or Kukiwon 8th Dan Certificate.

GM Yun and Rhee, Chong Chul do not keep in contact as far as I am aware as they were never very friendly toward each other. Yun was one of the other ITF pioneers in Australia and was the one who Gen Choi supported as Rhee did not pay his dues to the ITF.

I know both gentlemen and I can tell you that they were not members of each other's fan clubs.

GM Yun left the ITF in about 1989 to form Yun Jung Do. He was ITF 8th Dan at the time.

Seniority is as follows:
Rhee was senior to Yun in the ITF when they were both members. However, Yun actually received his 8th Dan ITF, while Rhee Chong chul was only officially 6th Dan. Rhee, Chong Hyup is actually much senior to both of these men in time involved in TKD.

Regards

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#309373 - 09/02/07 11:13 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: chosunitf]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Thanks for PM ITFunity, I will chase up for you.

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#309374 - 09/02/07 11:22 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
G’Day Sabum Steve, it’s been a long time, remember me Robb from Rhee we have spoken face to face on the Goldie a while ago. You are close enough on some of those details, but glaring issue is your view on Master Rhee leaving the ITF, the slanderous claims of with holding fees aimed at character assassination are feeble, you know the state of flux the ITF as an organization was in - in the late 70’s most original Masters were estranged for many years before it was official they had to cut ties.

Master Rhee and most of the original Masters were forced to leave the ITF due to the severe pressure put on them by the ROK to disassociate himself from General Choi due to General Choi’s actions regarding the North Korea issue. Much politics make for great story telling but allows for those that are standing at the end rewrite from their point of view (those still in ITF), more so than the ones that had to walk away (as Master Rhee did).

My understanding is the fracturing of the Original Masters has now been retold different ways by all 3 of the ITF’s, Vienna, North Korea & Canada.

Excerpt from web page http://www.taekwondopioneers.com/grand_master.html referred to by ITFunity (in previous posts on this thread) written by Grand Master Choi CK
________________________________________________________
1981
Promoted to 8th Degree Black Belt by Gen. Choi. Was a member of two I.T.F. Representatives in an attempt to merge with World Tae Kwon Do Federation [W.T.F.].
With deep regret, Master Choi dropped support for Gen. Choi because of his ties with North Korea. At this junction, South Korea was technically at war and had no diplomatic relations with North Korea.
_______________________________________________________

A couple of references below to the fracturing of the General Choi’s then ITF and ROK forcing most of the original Masters (fiercely loyal Koreans to make a painful choice)
http://www.gardnertkd.com/Taekwon%20Do%20History.htm
http://www.budosportcapelle.nl/gesch.html
http://www.martialartsregister.co.uk/thearts.asp?artid=27
http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/SECTION2_ITFrifting.html

As such Master Rhee was first and foremost a South Korean Marine and had pledged his life long loyalty to the ROK before General Choi as a ROK representative hand picked him for the development of TKD.

You will never hear Master Rhee speak poorly of General Choi “The Father of Tae Kwon Do” as I am sure he and most of the original Masters understand the issue is more than just black and white. Master Rhee has never tried to rewrite what happened when he was forced to leave General Choi’s ITF, not because he is at blame but because it was a dirty political affair between GM Choi & the ROK. Whether you Sabum Steve look upon your own promotion to 1st Dan by Master Rhee Chong Chul as a great honor or not you must morally remember were you came from. The new school you now preside over as ITF examiner is a break away of a break away of RHEE TKD as yourself are the product of a break away of a break away of RHEE TKD. Sabum Shane of Yin Yang TKD was a 1st Dan Sabum with RHEE TKD just 2 years ago and you promoted him to ITF 3rd Dan at the start of this year – that’s interesting.

It has been distasteful for me to note all above but was forced to as you made the silly call on Master Rhee’s honesty. Cheers my friend, step on a cane toad for me and enjoy a 4X, let the history be, it is not the domain of us juniors to try and rewrite it.

Regards

PS Sabum Steven (ChosunITF) as your 1st post - your not VDJ reborn are you mate!

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#309375 - 09/03/07 08:37 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
chosunitf Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 6
H Robb

Please mate, I do not like ignorance dressed up as fact or knowledge.

Your response clearly demonstrates that you have no idea of what I wrote. Go back and read it again and tell me if I was assassinating Mr Rhee's character. Whether true or not, whether you want to believe it or not, I have seen the letter suspending Mr Rhee. Now, whether I believe it or not is another story in itself.

Also, if you are going to espouse that you know something about me, where I come from, those associated with me, how they got there or where they come from, then please, please, please Robb get it right, as it just makes you look foolish and extremely ignorant otherwise.

Regards

Steven Luxmoore
21 Years TKD
16 Years in the ITF.
Not the product of a break away of a break away.
Not the Examiner of Shane Astwood (that prize goes to Mr Michael Muleta), who was not a 1st Dan 2 years ago (5 maybe)

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#309376 - 09/03/07 11:09 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: chosunitf]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
And Mr. Luxmoore and my self are to very different people, he being obviously an Australian citizen and I am an American citizen. Robb, it seems that you are going to an extreme to legitimize your instructor, and I can really appreciate that. You think that I was personally attacking him as it was not the case. The site that I posted in my original post on this topic made NO MENTION of his connection to the ITF or Gen.Choi and it was not made clear until the thread had been brought back up to the forefront.
The things that bothered me on the site were there was only a portion of the patterns being taught & the rapid advancement of students and the projection of what looked like he was the creator of a "New" type of TKD as it was obvious that it had Chang Hon roots.


Now to the meat and potataoes of what I was getting at waaaaaaaaaay back when this was a fresh thread. Rhee Chong Chul maybe a very gifted martial artists (I mentioned in my original post that he seemed to be very physically gifted), he maybe the ambassador of TKD sent to Austrailia by the General, all of that does not mean that I was wrong in viewing my opinion that it had all of the warning signs of McDoJang to me. All one has to do is look at the ATA to see that truth lies in what I am saying. Haeng Ung Lee was also an ITF member under the General, leaving the ITF for what I will assume are many of the same reasons that alot of the pioneers left for, he started ATA, with all good intentions I'm sure, but what the ATA has become is, IMO, a big national daycare center with very poor training practices. Again my opinion and experiences of what I have seen in the ATA. We all know that there are many instructors and dojangs from all kinds of orgs thru out the world that can fall into this category, do I know for certain that is the case of Rhee TKD in Austrailia, No ! I can only go by what information I come across on the net and people who train within it, or until (if ever) I make my way down under. I don't know why you are taking this so personally (as it seems to be to me that you are), if you are comfortable in your training and confident in what you have learned within your dojang will work in the street,then why do you care what I think ?

VDJ


Edited by VDJ (09/03/07 11:12 AM)

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#309377 - 09/03/07 01:19 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Gentlemen,
To Robb and Chosun. You are the new guys on the block as far as forum participation. On occasion things flare up in the TKD threads. Thing get said. I would encourage you to be both cautious and gracious. You are guests here.
_________________________
www.prairiemartialarts.com

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#309378 - 09/03/07 06:22 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: oldman]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
I would add that this was a common complaint about ITF Masters that left the organization. It was often said that they were not sending in certificate fess to the organization. However, we must ask- which came 1st, the chicken or the egg? In other words, were the political views/asspirations that the Ambassador held & acted upon, what caused them to hold back. It makes sense that if one was leaving a group or had problems with it, they would not support it with their money. Or, did some promise students ITF certs, charge them for it & then not forward the fees? I don't know, but I do think both happened. I also wouldn't know which came 1st.
However, I do really appreciate all the historical info that has been put forth in this thread. I also think that its great that we have the various points as well.

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#309379 - 09/04/07 03:50 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: ITFunity]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
There always seemed to be bad mouthing when people left the ITF... within a short period of time they went from teaching and demonstrating for the General to apparently not having the corrrect updated techniques.

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#309380 - 09/04/07 09:22 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: flynch]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
_________________________________________________________
Gentlemen,
To Robb and Chosun. You are the new guys on the block as far as forum participation. On occasion things flare up in the TKD threads. Thing get said. I would encourage you to be both cautious and gracious. You are guests here.
__________________________________________________________

Agree and understood Oldman

To Sabum Steve (ChosunITF), I don’t like propaganda dressed up as truth. Whether you personally believe that propaganda or not. I guess I don’t know you as such Sabum Steve, however I would suggest you rewrite your profile on your schools website if you want the facts to be conveniently ignored. I would also propose you check the YinYang TKD website you preside over as ITF examiner and make some amendments. I do know Astwood, Hicks & Co well, please don’t worry about me looking foolish (I know I am at times), your association and ignorance to past deeds should be your concern. Re: Astwood, I see Muleta is at fault, sorry, you may also check - it maybe just over 2 but not 5 years. I enjoy the fact an ITF examiner would base an ITF 3rd Dan promotion on RHEE TKD 1st Dan rank held by him - was it 3 years ago, but then who cares. Sincerely all the best with it mate, I’ve never liked 4x, have a Crownie on me, cheers.

To VDJ – I understand and am copasetic, you understand Master Rhee Chong Chul is my Master Instructor my responses are intrinsic. I don’t agree with your statements regarding RTKD AUS (do not like the implicated comparison to ATA) but further typing would be futile. VDJ I would still please like some specifics on your martial arts back ground if possible?

To ITFunity – Yes I agree it is all good as long as it doesn’t get to the nasty name calling stage!

Robb
Member Gold Coast Titans National Rugby League Club
35 year card holding member of Manley Library
19 years RHEE TKD member “not a break away - as RHEE TKD has always been our Aus registered name/kwan – but was once ITF affiliated HOWEVER RHEE TKD is still very much ROK Government associated through Master Rhee Chong Chul.
2 years Fighting Arts Forum loiterer
Chosen style sign off :-)

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#309381 - 09/04/07 10:06 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Robb,

I guess you just want to see what you want to see. I was not comparing your schools to ATA, just making a point, if you want to misinterpret what I am saying I can't help that, the futility seems to be on your part. As far as my martial arts background, I don't feel the same need as you to justify my training, whether it be who my instructor is or the org which I belong. I have trained with numerous people as a visitor to their schools and some of which post here on this board. I am confident in my abilities and what I have been taught (by all whom I have trained with). I don't know exactly what it is that I said that got under your skin, but again, why do you care what I think ? If you don't agree, so be it, no skin off my nose.

VDJ

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#309382 - 09/05/07 04:38 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
chosunitf Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 6
Robb

Once again you misinterpret the message.

It is not propaganda. The question was asked as to Mr Rhee's departure from the ITF. I told them what the ITF had stated. It is only one side of the argument. I am sure that Mr Rhee has another version and in reality neither of us will know the exact truth. Perhaps it lays somewhere in between.

As for my history on my site, thank you but I do know it seeing that I wrote it. I am also glad that you know Hicks and Shane, I will ask them if they know you?

Lastly, Mr Muleta tested Shane to 3rd Dan in 2006. 18 months ago following him being a 2nd Dan since 2004. So he did not jump from 1st-3rd Dan. The ITF is clear on time requirements between gradings. Maybe Mr Rhee should remember that and not keep people on 1st Dan for 10 years or more.

However, lets not dwell on Mr Rhee's shortcomings, even though he did break away from the ITF.

Just so that you know, when I brought Mr Rhee Ki Ha to Australia in May this year, I arranged for him to meet with Mr Rhee, Jong Hyup in Melbourne. This was at my instigation and organisation as RJH was one of the founders of the ITF and a very good friend of Mr Rhee Ki Ha's. The meeting was very emotional, especially due to the fact that I believe that when Mr Rhee Ki Ha moved from Malaysia to Singapore, he paid the air ticket for Rhee Jong Hyup to leave Korea and take his place in Malaysia.

So you can be very certain Robb that we in the ITF in this country (especially the ex-Rhee members), know all too well the contribution that Rhee, Jong Hyup, Rhee, Jong chul, Yun, Young Kyu, Yang, Yoo Sup and Kim, Sok Pong made.

Steven

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#309383 - 09/05/07 05:40 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: chosunitf]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Hello Sabum Steven

Yes please say hello to Lesley for me and ask him how lower his back issue is going, I hope all the shimming and janging hasn’t made it worse. Also let Sabum Shane know I’m Robb from Kwan Jang Nim Nigel’s classes, Shane and I are a similar age – if he thinks hard enough he'll remember me getting kicked around the class regularly by very big Jerry.H.

Re: Shane’s rank, he left RHEE TKD in Nov 2003 as a 1st Dan, but it is of no consequence now.

Much respect that you organised the GM Rhee Ki Ha and Master Rhee Chong Hyup meeting in Melbourne, I was unaware of this. I will be down in Victoria later this year on business and shall definitely get a few training session in under Master Rhee Chong Hyup at his Prahran Dojang including his killer regular Friday night Sabum class. I look forward to asking Master Rhee Chong Hyup about this special meeting you set up.

Robb

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#309384 - 09/05/07 06:12 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
chosunitf Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 6
Robb

By all means ask Mr Rhee, Jong Hyup about the meeting. I actually have some nice pictures of the both of them together should you wish. They actually spent a good few hours together. I also arranged a similar meeting with GM Rhee and GM Yun, Young Kyu in Brisbane. So you see, we do not forget where we come from.

Jerry Hatter. I knew him when he was a yellow belt in Rockhampton working at the Stanwell Power Station. Actually have a couple of pictures of him, myself and Brian Nicholls together from that time. In fact I was there on Jerry's last day in Rockhampton, and have run into him a couple of times over the years. Spoke to him a few times about his time in Townsville with john Ivanov.

He may remember that on his last day, we were playing pool at his residence and I got a coffee from one of those instant coffee dispensing machines that had half a cockroach in it. Funny thing was he had the cup before me. Very nice gentleman.

Steven

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#309385 - 09/06/07 02:10 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: chosunitf]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
Plz gentlemen dont resurect my introductory thread to argue all the political bs that goes along with Taekwondo (if u let it go along with it) Start a new thread or stop beating a dead horse.

On a better note, i am very proud to annouce that i graded for my first degree black belt on monday and passed. I am very proud to have attained my 1st degree black belt but i realise it is only the start of my journey :P

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#309386 - 09/15/07 07:28 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
chosunitf Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 6
Robb

Look at the latest edition of Australasian TKD Magazine for an article on GM Rhee Ki Ha. In it he speaks of being the person who initially brought Rhee Jong Hyup from Korea to Malaysia, then brought him to Singapore to replace him when he left for the UK.

They were old friends and demonstrates the relationships that ITF people have with their old colleagues.

Steven

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#309387 - 09/16/07 09:09 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: chosunitf]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Hello Sabum Steven

My respect again that you organised the Rhee Ki Ha & Rhee Chong Hyup meeting. In regards to those pictures if you would like to post them to Master Rhee Chong Hyup direct I can PM you his address or if you like you can send digital files to myself and I will have them printed off and deliver them on your behalf to Master Rhee Chong Hyup when I train in Melbourne under him later this year.

Sabum Jerry – good to hear you know him well. Jerry is a hell of a nice bloke but at 6 Foot 9 inches and 130 kilo’s he can be extremely intimidating to spar against when you are only 6 foot and 90kilo’s. Sabum Jerry is in his 40’s now but his flexibility is amazing and is technique strength is unbelievable, he is an icon in RTKD Aus. You may not know but Sabum Jerry was promoted to 4th Dan by Master Rhee Chong Chul last year which is lofty for us.

Thanks for your advice on Australasian TKD mag GM Rhee Ki Ha article I will buy magazine today and check it out, will be interesting.

Cheers

Robb

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#309388 - 09/18/07 06:15 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
hello folks

so this is what my once favorite forum has turned into. so much learning going on, so much insight. so many claims and bits and pieces of distorted facts. what is the point to this again?

i know, i know i'm an old practitioner of the art, a lil over 10 years doesn't make me a master. And sure i am not all crazy about finding out the history of some of the top figures in the big money making Organizations. no i dont want to find out what they had for dinner last saturday or political moves they made.

I am curious about the art they studied, and the other arts that influenced them. I'm curious about technique and application. Their approach and teaching methodologies. all this investigation on the organizations political history, why not go IRS on them and find out how much each person mad in revenues ^^ thats something that is just as important as those questions above.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#309389 - 09/18/07 03:26 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: TeK9]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Tek,

This type of stuff has been a part of TKD forever, its nothing new. The politics are part of its history, and though you may not enjoy it, there are those who still like to debate it. I would be willing to bet it comes up in other arts as well. Its just one of those things you need to weed thru and pass by if it doesn't interest you, thats all.

VDJ

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#309390 - 09/18/07 10:27 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
TKD I think has no more internal politics than other like organizations. What makes TKD so bad with politics is that the Art was born into a very political situation, an occupied country, a country split into 2, a country destroyed by a civil war, a country taken over by a military coup, a country ran by 3 military dictatorships in a row, a country that went from 3rd world status to the 10 largest economy in the world in 3,4-5 decades, a country still divided into 2 & still technically at war for 57 years & a national MA that some consider a sport & a national MA that has made it into the Olympics & a national MA that has clear ties to its former occupier, Japan, that few want to acknowledge

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#309391 - 09/19/07 02:17 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: ITFunity]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
Stop hijacking my thread just lock it, and yes congratulations to myself on my black belt promotion seeming as it is my thread wouldnt go astray aswell

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#309392 - 09/19/07 02:25 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Congratulations jasperdaman!!!

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#309393 - 09/19/07 07:14 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
chosunitf Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 6
Robb

Yeah I knew that Jerry tested to 4th Dan. I believe that Nigel did also. He keeps in contact with some friends of mine and mentioned that he was testing with Mr Rhee.

Send me your email address and I will forward the pictures of Mr Rhee Jong Hyup and Mr Rhee Ki Ha to you to.

Steven

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#309394 - 09/28/07 12:21 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: chosunitf]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
Sabum Steven.
Thank you very much for the emailed Rhee KH & Rhee CH pictures. Small exchanges like this go a long way in increasing the respect between schools and factions.
Cheers
Robb

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#309395 - 10/16/07 09:15 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
texn Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10
I happen to know Shane Astwood and he was graded to 2nd Dan 4 years ago, I was there to watch him earn it. Then 2 years after that he was graded to 3rd and I watched him earn that too. If you work hard with the ITF and fulfil your time requirement with them and know all of your grading material then you will be invited to grade. 2yrs on 2nd Dan. 3 yrs on 3rd Dan etc with up to 6 months taken off for official participation in ITF seminars, international instructor courses and the like. But then you still have to perform and pass, which he did. He didn't leave a break away of a break away, he found his way to the the true taekwondo.

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#309396 - 10/16/07 02:18 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: texn]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Yes the minimum time line for 1st degree is 1-3years, depending on hours trained & progess. Most commercial schools do it in around 3-4 years. To go to 2nd Dan, it is 1.5 years & 2nd to 3rd is 2 years. Of course progress has to be made as well. These are only min times, nothing precludes waiting longer. In addition, the IIC did allow a 1x 6 month deduction in waiting time. However, when they (IIC) went from 2 weeks to 1 week then to a weekend, it was changed. Now each of the ITFs have some deduction in waiting times, but they are not all the same. As far as I know, the deduction time, only applies to certified IICs, not other seminars, classes, courses or other special training.

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#309397 - 10/17/07 11:15 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
texn Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10
People who do Rhee Taekwondo in Australia are, for the most part, are referred to as Rhee-tards. Or so I've heard. I struggle with Rhee taekwondo practitioners speaking of speed and power if they don't utilise sine wave.

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#309398 - 10/17/07 11:57 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
texn Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10
Shane left Rhee and went to Shim Jang in 2003 and then graded to 2nd dan with Shim Jang in Jan 04 after 6 years as a 1st Dan. He then left Shim Jang as a 2nd dan and formed Yin Yang and affiliated with the ITF (best move he ever made). He Spent 2 years as a 2nd dan (which is all that is required by ITF providing you know ALL OF YOUR GRADING SYLLABUS) then he graded to 3rd dan in Jan 06 by a panel of three ITF International Instructors- Mr Michael Muleta (6th Dan), Mr Steven Legrow (5th Degree) and Mr Christophe Galibert (5th Degree).
He has not skipped a grade, he has fulfilled all of his time requirements and fulfilled all of his technical and theory requirements also. His promotions have been honourable and he can hold his head high with integrity. Time wise he is due for promotion to 4th dan in Jan 2009 unless he gets a 6 month time deduction for the 3 day international instructors course he attended in Malaysia in March 2006, which would mean if he is invited to grade he could do so in July of 2008. So no matter what way you look at it, he's done all of his minimum time requirements for each and every grade and knows all of what is required of an ITF 3rd dan.
6 years as 1st Dan
2 years as 2nd Dan
Currently 3rd Dan
I can't see your problem with his gradings.

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#309399 - 10/18/07 02:06 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: texn]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
Texn i wont have you joining on in the hijack of my thread and disrespecting my art with stupid chilish names such as 'Rhee-Tards', CAN A MOD PLZ BLOCK THIS STUPID FRIGGIN THREAD BEFORE WE GET MORE IDIOTS PUTTING THERE 2 CENTS WORTH IN

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#309400 - 10/18/07 02:29 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: texn]
Robb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Aus
texn

Break Away = a distinguishable piece that separates from the larger body / ex: you as an Instructor, take the hall venue you run classes in using your old schools name and the students in your care that are members of that old school and transfer the lot (hall, students & you) to join another or create another. Is the generally accepted ma definitions of break away in use.

As you noted txn “His promotions have been honourable and he can hold his head high with integrity”

It was late 2003 that Hicks & Co broke away from the Rhee TKD school with Shane following Hicks. When Hicks broke away as a 3rd Dan in Rhee TKD his first action was to self promote himself to 6th Dan ‘Master” and then promote in Dan rank all the Branch Instructors that supported him in his break away from Rhee TKD as was his pre-break away promise to ensure he could set up his new school and guarantee income. Hicks needed all the Branch Instructors support to ensure he got most of the halls and of course all the students that would follow their instructors with out question to kick start his new business venture. Not long after as you noted in Jan 2004 Shane was promoted to 2nd Dan by Hicks the self promoted Master. Is that an honourable promotion? Maybe it is, from your point of view.

Hicks is not a Master even on paper affiliation, he just decided one day he was a Master and that’s that, he went down the shop bought a new black belt and embroidered 6 Dans onto it. Hicks has no 6th Dan promotions ties to any established Masters, Grand Master or Taekwondo organisations (perceived McDojangs or not) at all to give the Dan promotions he hands out the slightest form of legitimacy. So my earlier posted comment was how or why an ITF examiner would base a 3rd Dan ITF promotion on a 2nd Dan given by the quality of person such as Hicks. Don’t get me wrong I have great respect for the ITF Sabum I know and have trained with. Shane now is no doubt 3rd Dan ITF material training under Master Culter.

As you said txn “I can't see your problem with his gradings.” If it works for you - great.

Robb Rhee-tard (I like that texn)

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#309401 - 10/18/07 08:58 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Robb]
texn Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10
Yes Hicks is shamelessly self promoted and someone should tell Australasian Taekwondo magazine that. one of the many reasons shane left and has had nothing to do with les or shim jang.

The ITF examiner based a 3rd Dan ITF promotion on what the 2nd Dan could do - NOT on the person who promoted said 2nd dan. Shane is certainly every bit 3rd Dan ITF material. In the ITF you can come from any other taekwondo and they will recognise your current rank up to 3rd dan, even if it was a less than honourable promotion - provided of course you can perform all of the required skill for your belt level, patterns, breaks etc and have done your time, which, obviously shane had done (time), and could do (skill), and to their high high standard. His 2nd dan was acknowledged by them because of that skill and high standard and his rank was accepted based on what he performed for them, not based on who promoted him. Only then he was offered promotion to 3rd dan.
Breakaway - meaning ITF - the original, Rhee a break away of that, Shim Jang a break away of that, Yin Yang a break away back to ITF - the original, he's come full circle.
Glad you like rhee-tard.

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#309402 - 10/18/07 01:17 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: texn]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

Glad you like rhee-tard.




I don't particularly like it though. It strikes me as entirely unconstructive name-calling.

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#309403 - 10/18/07 06:34 PM Re: Introducing myself [Re: jasperdaman]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

Texn i wont have you joining on in the hijack of my thread and disrespecting my art with stupid chilish names such as 'Rhee-Tards', CAN A MOD PLZ BLOCK THIS STUPID FRIGGIN THREAD BEFORE WE GET MORE IDIOTS PUTTING THERE 2 CENTS WORTH IN





If the thread were hijacked or off topic I don't believe the mods would let it build 9 pages worth of posts. Texn neither disrespected the art nor called anybody any childish names, just merely informed us of what they had heard Rhee TKD practioners referred to as. I feel that the term is more offensive to somebody who is stricken with a mental handicap than anything else.

VDJ

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#309404 - 10/19/07 01:04 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: VDJ]
jasperdaman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Australia
The thread obviously is hijacked as i started it to introduce myself, now does any of the posts they have posted look like its about me or who i am? They are using it to argue there own points which im completley fine with, but they should just start there own thread and not turn it into a continuation of mine. And the crack about Rhee-Tards was neither constructive or called for and had no positive input into the conversation whatsoever

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#309405 - 10/19/07 02:41 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: Leo_E_49]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

Welcome to the forum!




Incredible, and I just thought this was a thread for introduction. When I joined the forum, I wasn't greeted with 9 pages of garbage. How did this even happen? It reflects poorly upon the TKD forum that an introduction placed here could end up as a political mess like this...
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#436141 - 01/21/14 01:38 AM Re: Introducing myself [Re: texn]
ALPHABET_SOUP Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/17/14
Posts: 12
Loc: Perth Australia
A bunch of 12 year olds referring to an organization does not amount to "being the most part". For the record, speed and power do not come from the sine wave, they come from putting as much mass behind a strike as quickly as possible and that is done by putting your hips into it.

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