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22740 Members
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Max Online: 307 @ 02/21/13 09:36 AM
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#309005 - 02/06/08 12:27 AM
Re: Union of ITF and WTF
[Re: von1]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
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Quote:
Hi all, I would love to see a merge, you would see from day 1 an emergence of mutual respect for ITF and WTF especially from ea. other.
No way! there is deep hatred that goes back decades from the old guard.
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#309006 - 02/06/08 12:43 AM
Re: Union of ITF and WTF
[Re: ITFunity]
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Member
Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 193
Loc: Paterson, NJ USA
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Hey guys I've noticed that there is just 2 much beef with the ITF and WTF. I have a solution for this dilema...why not join the GTF? Global Taekwondo Federation...........This is farely a new federation been around for about 18 years and is still growing with over 25 countries on its resume...and yes it has politics but nothing compared to what u guys are dealing with.... Just thought i can butt in and help lol..... For curious peeps, GTF has the same forms as ITF and some new ones created by the late Grandmaster Park Jung Tae OH AND THE GTF WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP IS GUNNA BE HELD IN CANADA IN JULY I THINK THIS YEAR... Bow out with respect from a TKD/BAGUA MARTIALIST 
Edited by EFRAIN (02/06/08 12:47 AM)
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#309007 - 02/06/08 07:42 AM
Re: Union of ITF and WTF
[Re: ITFunity]
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Veteran
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1670
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Quote:
Quote:
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I think it would be cool to get the best of both worlds. However, if they merge, i hope all of the forms and trditional aspects are preserved.
What do you mean the "best of both worlds"? They aren't really different with the exception of sine wave and the sparring rules. The techniques have different terminology, which is really only in english because in Korean they are the same. VDJ
No Sir, I don't think they really are the same. Now don't get me wrong, there are so much that they have in common, as all MAs do. However, in their desire to be different from Japanese Karate, they both went in different directions. Its funny, because many of the old guard in the WTF, the KTA & KukKiwon think ITF is karate. Of course that was what the general also said about these groups centered in SK.
The ITF & how they move is so far from how the WTF moves. SW is a huge difference, but so are the chambers & previous positions. The WTF has really developed some unique kicking as well. There is of couse the rules, as the WTF does 1 category in the Olympics & has a seperate Wcs for patterns. The ITF has 5 categories in the WCs. Their uniforms are different, as well as teir patterns & many other minor aspects as well.
Compare the kukkiown text with the encylopedia.
You're missing my point.I am not talking about uniforms and the political differences, I am talking about technique.In my travels, about the only thing I have not seen in an ITF school is the "Double/Triple" kick. The WTF Narabum kick (because of its pronunciation some call Audobon) is the same as the ITF 360 turning kick.The WTF spin hook kick is the same as the ITF reverse turning kick. The ITF turning kick is the same as the WTF round kick, which I am certain would have the same name in korean. The sine wave is the single biggest difference between the two styles and is typically only seen when patterns/stepping basics and 1,2&3 steps are practiced. I find the ITF sparring more exciting as they seem to be willing to take more chances in their attacks and keep the match moving as well as the hands being allowed to the head. Both styles do a lot of bouncing in their matches with the ITF practioners typically preferring lead leg techniques (but not always).So again, what is the "Best of both Worlds"? If the WTF adopts allowing hands, then it has become ITF sparring for the most part and vice versa!
VDJ
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#309008 - 02/06/08 08:11 AM
Re: Union of ITF and WTF
[Re: ITFunity]
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Member
Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi all, I would love to see a merge, you would see from day 1 an emergence of mutual respect for ITF and WTF especially from ea. other.
No way! there is deep hatred that goes back decades from the old guard.
The problem with a merger is that the WTF controls competition and KKW controls TKD. The ITF controls both. I still say keep them separate and have a huge TKD festival where both are showcased. We are at a time where both can exist without interfering with the other. We are seeing the ITF returning to SK with positive results. I feel this is a more logical step then merging.
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#309009 - 02/06/08 01:00 PM
Re: Union of ITF and WTF
[Re: michaelboik]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
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This is something like TKD International (TAGB) tried to do. They have an independent World Championships which is open to all TKD stylists.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!
Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"
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#309010 - 02/06/08 01:34 PM
Re: Union of ITF and WTF
[Re: trevek]
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Veteran
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1670
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Th AAU in the states does as well. It recognizes ITF,WTF and TSD patterns at the tournaments. Sparring is both stop point and olympic.
VDJ
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#309011 - 02/06/08 01:46 PM
Re: Union of ITF and WTF
[Re: VDJ]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
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Quote:
In my travels, about the only thing I have not seen in an ITF school is the "Double/Triple" kick.
[quote/]
If you are talking about mutiple kicks, the ITF has these as well.
Quote:
The WTF Narabum kick (because of its pronunciation some call Audobon) is the same as the ITF 360 turning kick.[quote/]
The ITF has no 360 turning kick
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The WTF spin hook kick is the same as the ITF reverse turning kick.[quote/]
I don't think so. 2 differnt kicks, with 2 differnt motions & 2 different targets.
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ITF turning kick is the same as the WTF round kick, which I am certain would have the same name in korean.[quote/]
Yes & no. It has the same name, but is not done the same way. We have side turning & turning kicks, with different targets. We also do turning kick primarily with foot the ball of the foot. The instep & knees are secondary tools.
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The sine wave is the single biggest difference between the two styles and is typically only seen when patterns/stepping basics and 1,2&3 steps are practiced.[quote/]
I didn't think they had 2 step sparring & they do not do step sparring like the ITF does, nor do they do semi-free sparring, foot technique sparring or model sparring.
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I find the ITF sparring more exciting as they seem to be willing to take more chances in their attacks and keep the match moving as well as the hands being allowed to the head. Both styles do a lot of bouncing in their matches with the ITF practioners typically preferring lead leg techniques (but not always).[quote/]
These are big differences!
Quote:
So again, what is the "Best of both Worlds"? If the WTF adopts allowing ha very in ands, then it has become ITF sparring for the most part and vice versa! VDJ
Yes, but only in a very limited way.
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#309012 - 02/06/08 01:48 PM
Re: Union of ITF and WTF
[Re: michaelboik]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
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Quote:
We are seeing the ITF returning to SK with positive results. I feel this is a more logical step then merging.
This is going to be huge in opening up eyes to what original TKD is, in the homeland of TKD.
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#309013 - 02/06/08 03:55 PM
Re: Union of ITF and WTF
[Re: ITFunity]
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Veteran
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1670
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Quote:
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In my travels, about the only thing I have not seen in an ITF school is the "Double/Triple" kick.
[quote/]
If you are talking about mutiple kicks, the ITF has these as well.
No, it is not a multiple kick as you are probably thinking about it (same leg kicking numerous times). The first kick hits low around the thigh or buttocks and then is followed up very fast with the opposite leg to a scoring area, add one more with the first kicking leg to make it a triple.
Quote:
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The WTF Narabum kick (because of its pronunciation some call Audobon) is the same as the ITF 360 turning kick.[quote/]
The ITF has no 360 turning kick
Kicking leg is the lead leg,spin all the way around and kick with lead leg? Maybe 560 turning kick?
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The WTF spin hook kick is the same as the ITF reverse turning kick.[quote/]
I don't think so. 2 differnt kicks, with 2 differnt motions & 2 different targets.
Please explain as everytime I go to an ITF school that is how it is explained to me. Maybe VDan can give some insight here for me as well.
Quote:
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ITF turning kick is the same as the WTF round kick, which I am certain would have the same name in korean.[quote/]
Yes & no. It has the same name, but is not done the same way. We have side turning & turning kicks, with different targets. We also do turning kick primarily with foot the ball of the foot. The instep & knees are secondary tools.
I am aware of these kicks and the striking tools and their targets. If I'm not mistaken the Side turning kick also has a different chambering position than the turning kick, which is definitely a round kick with the WTF/Kukki.
Quote:
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The sine wave is the single biggest difference between the two styles and is typically only seen when patterns/stepping basics and 1,2&3 steps are practiced.[quote/]
I didn't think they had 2 step sparring & they do not do step sparring like the ITF does, nor do they do semi-free sparring, foot technique sparring or model sparring.
Depends on whose school you go into. But this still is getting away from techniques.
VDJ
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#309014 - 02/06/08 04:26 PM
Re: Union of ITF and WTF
[Re: VDJ]
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Prolific
Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10411
Loc: Great White North
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I've looked at this from time to time but have not really read everything. I however would like to add my simple comment regarding the possible union of ITF and WTF. I personally hope this never happens. They are two unities that are unique and should remain this way. I no more want to start learning the ITF format/techniques as the ITF doesn't want to learn the WTF format/techniques. The ITF has its encyclopedias that they hold in high regard and I highly doubt they want to give that up and I'm sure I'm not the only WTF person that doesn't want to have an encyclopedia. The ITF uses sinewave where as the WTF doesn't; and each like it this way.
Two separate entities that should remain as such.
_________________________
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