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#308833 - 12/19/06 09:03 AM Spiral boxing form video
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Never heard of it or seen this before. Looks pretty odd to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L70tjwNTtuI&mode=related&search=
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#308834 - 12/19/06 09:46 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: MattJ]
Raul Perez Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
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Looks like the Chinese "Ground N Pound" Kata
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#308835 - 12/19/06 02:09 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: MattJ]
bo-ken Offline
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That is odd I have never seen a kata with that much focus on ground striking. Plus what was with his legs he looked liked his knees were going to break at any moment.

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#308836 - 12/20/06 08:35 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: MattJ]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Interesting.

Though I've not seen this particular Form, I've done some of the leg work; what I've on other Threads referred to as the 'monkey squat' where one knee only touches the ground; this way one can go from a low position to one of standing quickly and vice versa and being able to move around near the ground quickly. My training of this method also involves jumping around and landing in the one-knee-down position. The purpose being to get away quickly when for some reason one is forced onto the ground (e.g. being thrown or pushed) and to get away from any follow-up attack while you were down.

The name of this Form as it appeared on the video is "Luo Xuan Chuan" meaning having the characteristics of the spiral of the shells of snails. (Luo = Snail; Xuan = spiral; Chuan = fist)

The write up in the beginning said it belongs to a form of Shaolin martial art; something about a basic form of training where it's a short-strike system with the hands held close to the body and where the quick spiral of the body generates the required power.

Though the whole Form is done near the ground, it was not meant to be like that all the time in actual combat application. Certain individual techniques from the Form are extracted for use only when for any reason one needs to fight near or on the ground or on slippery ground where balancing foot-hold is an issue.
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#308837 - 12/20/06 10:05 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Chen Zen Offline
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Very interesting useless stuff.
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#308838 - 12/20/06 09:31 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: Chen Zen]
Ayub Offline
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Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
I've heard of drunken kung fu, but Hunchback of Notre Dame kung fu.... never!

Lets just say that guy is good at blocking very low kicks and injuring peoples knees and ankles.....
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#308839 - 12/20/06 10:15 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: Ayub]
Victor Smith Offline
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Its fairly obvious this is but one skill building set in a larger program. Systems like Dog Boxing incorporate a great deal of ground technique and this form seems to represent a grounding response building drill.
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#308840 - 12/20/06 10:50 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: MattJ]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
He looks like he's having a seizure.

This is complete garbage and worth nothing. If I had to score this, I'd give him points for comedy.


-John

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#308841 - 12/21/06 10:17 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: Victor Smith]
Fisherman Offline
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Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

Its fairly obvious this is but one skill building set in a larger program....and this form seems to represent a grounding response building drill.



That is what I was thinking. It also appears to me that there is a good deal of chin na technique in the form.
It would be nice to see how he applies the form.
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#308842 - 12/22/06 04:28 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: Fisherman]
ShangTsung Offline
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Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 104
Loc: Bomb factory
Is he disabled or something can he not stay on his feet for long, ive met a guy like that before who like fought from the ground and his wheelchair. I agree with it being an almost complete waste of time, its comendable that he is confident enough to perform such a set infront of other people. That must take guts

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#308843 - 12/22/06 05:30 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: Victor Smith]
JKogas Offline
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Quote:

Its fairly obvious this is but one skill building set in a larger program. Systems like Dog Boxing incorporate a great deal of ground technique and this form seems to represent a grounding response building drill.





It's "OBVIOUS"???

Skill building set? WHAT skill?


Question: Has anyone ever seen anyone truly fight like that? I've seen a LOOOTTTT of fights skilled and otherwise and I've truly never seen anyone (except for the mentally challenged) look anything like this.

Maybe this form is just for the "SUPER-TALENTED-KARATE-KA WHO'S-PHILOSOPHY-IS-TO-NEVER-USE-THEIR-SUPER-SKILLS-EXCEPT IN-LIFE-THREATENING-CIRCUMSTANCES-AND,-WOULD-NEVER-CONSIDER BEING-INVOLVED-IN-'SPORT'-HENCE-YOU-NEVER-SEE-THEM-ACTUALLY-FIGHT", group?

Am I close there??


-John

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#308844 - 12/22/06 11:24 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: JKogas]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
John,

Many of the Chinese systems, and there are many of them, contain uncountable numbers of technique sets. I've never seen this set before and am far from qualified to know the entire range of Chinese arts teachings, but I can see the skill in performing those techniques.

Such sets would not be conisdered complete systems, but skill building sets.

While It wouldn't be my choice of skill to develop, I can see where someone might choose to address this. The technieus shown seem to be a string of finishing techniques to conclude other techniue strings.

I only see a range of potential and try and consider why it was created and try to consider how it may be used.

How we are willing to consider others practices is more than not shaded by our own experiences.
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#308845 - 12/23/06 01:29 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: JKogas]
ashe_higgs Offline
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Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 593
Loc: phoenix
Quote:

Maybe this form is just for the "SUPER-TALENTED-KARATE-KA WHO'S-PHILOSOPHY-IS-TO-NEVER-USE-THEIR-SUPER-SKILLS-EXCEPT IN-LIFE-THREATENING-CIRCUMSTANCES-AND,-WOULD-NEVER-CONSIDER BEING-INVOLVED-IN-'SPORT'-HENCE-YOU-NEVER-SEE-THEM-ACTUALLY-FIGHT", group?




no because he's not doing karate, and is not a karate ka.

while i can see the possibility of sinlge leg type take downs and finishing techniques, my best guess is while this form may be based on a traditional set but this version is modern and very wushu.


Edited by ashe_higgs (12/23/06 01:30 AM)
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#308846 - 12/23/06 08:16 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: ashe_higgs]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
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Loc: North Carolina
ashe_higgs wrote:

Quote:


no because he's not doing karate, and is not a karate ka.





It was a joke.


My point with all of this is, that you NEVER see anyone training this way who actually fights.

The best ground fighters in the WORLD, wrestlers and Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighters, do not train this way. There's a reason for that.

-John

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#308847 - 12/23/06 09:05 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: JKogas]
Fisherman Offline
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Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:


My point with all of this is, that you NEVER see anyone training this way who actually fights



Maybe they aren't training to fight?

Quote:

The best ground fighters in the WORLD, wrestlers and Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighters, do not train this way. There's a reason for that.



That reason is that they are primarily concerned with competition and fighting. There are other things to the martial arts (as I understand them) than just fighting.
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#308848 - 12/23/06 09:35 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: Fisherman]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


Maybe they aren't training to fight?





Yes, perhaps they are in martial arts because they enjoy ballet, dance, or perhaps, water polo. You never know do you?

If they’re in it for fighting however, THAT isn’t the way to go.


Quote:


That reason is that they are primarily concerned with competition and fighting.




I’d say they are more concerned with “performance” than they are competition or fighting.


Quote:

There are other things to the martial arts (as I understand them) than just fighting.





Like what? What can’t you achieve and achieve on an even higher level through alive arts than you can through practices such as these? Just curious as to your thoughts.


-John

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#308849 - 12/23/06 02:11 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: JKogas]
ashe_higgs Offline
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Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 593
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as i said, that form is very wushu (IMO). traiditonal CMA emphasize the use of strong body mechanics.
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#308850 - 12/23/06 03:52 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: ashe_higgs]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Strong body mechanics for epileptic fits?

The "seizure" form...I like it. That's not bad. When someone approaches you, you can start spazzing out like this and they'll certainly think you're crazy. I mean, who attacks an insane person, right?!

Hey, it might work AFTER ALL, lol.


-John

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#308851 - 12/23/06 04:33 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: JKogas]
Fisherman Offline
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Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

Like what? What can’t you achieve and achieve on an even higher level through alive arts than you can through practices such as these? Just curious as to your thoughts.




What else is there besides fighting?
Plenty. (I come from a Chinese internal martial arts background, so I can't say that the same may be said for other non-chinese MA's.)From my experience I have found that there are also other physical and mental health oriented practices involved with my martial arts training. There are practices intended to benefit your physical health by making you stronger. There are meditative practices that help to give you focus and balance of emotions.
I think I understand what you mean when refering to 'alive arts'. You mean that the art trains on a real level when applying technique. 'Real' is refering to the method in which the techniques are trained. (Please correct me if I am wrong). I agree that training 'alive' will aquire good fighting skill, however, I think that such 'reality' based ma's are often missing the benefit of the heathy balanced mind.
Most of the folks that I have met that are in the MA's strickty to fight are a little on the edgy side, the "WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU LOOKING AT!" sort. They often have an excess of agressinveness due to an ovewhelming emphasis on hard fighting training. Good internal martial arts seek to balance this out and cultivate a stable mind as well as a healthy body and fighting skill.
Fighting is a semi lucrative profession if you choose it as your path, but it can also have a few side effects such as emotional instability. If all you do is train to fight that is going to be your mind set most of the time. If that is what you do, then go for it. Simply said, that isn't for me.
On the flip side. If you do forms and nothing but forms all the time and think that that is going to give you fighting skill you are out of your mind. The only way to learn how a MA functions within a fighting context is to train it with other people in that context. If you do not train how to fight with your MA then you will most likely not be able to fight with it. You are better off relying on instict rather than a false sense of security because you know some forms.
Personally I train ma's for the mental balance, peace of mind, focus, and the ability to defend myself. I do not train it to solely to fight.

Getting back to that video...
I would also say that the form does look more performance oriented. I do have an interest in the principle behind the techniques he is expressing in his form, however, being a more wushu oriented performance, my guess is that he doesn't train the fighting aspects of the form. I could be wrong though.

Thanks for the break from shoveling!!! We are still digging out from that blizzard!
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#308852 - 12/23/06 07:13 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: Fisherman]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


I think I understand what you mean when referring to 'alive arts'. You mean that the art trains on a real level when applying technique. 'Real' is referring to the method in which the techniques are trained. (Please correct me if I am wrong).




That’s close enough. Aliveness means that your partners are offering progressive resistance and, often have their own “objectives” per se. In other words, I’m trying to hit my partner and he’s trying to hit me. Basically that’s it, but of course that’s a simplistic view of things.


Quote:


I agree that training 'alive' will acquire good fighting skill, however, I think that such 'reality' based ma's are often missing the benefit of the healthy balanced mind.

Most of the folks that I have met that are in the MA's strictly to fight are a little on the edgy side, the "WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU LOOKING AT!" sort. They often have an excess of aggressiveness due to an overwhelming emphasis on hard fighting training. Good internal martial arts seek to balance this out and cultivate a stable mind as well as a healthy body and fighting skill.





My experience has been different. I should say that Aliveness has nothing to do with “fighting” and has more to do with simply developing the ability to “perform” one’s martial art. Some may read that as fighting. I don’t necessarily see it that way. I see that as training. Whether one fights or not is beside the point. I personally abhor violence as do all of the people that I train with. They’re training because it’s fun and they develop a demonstrable ability to “perform” (read, “defend themselves). Every last one of them have VERY healthy, balanced minds. They aren’t steroid freaks out for blood. That’s a common misconception. That certainly exists, but that exists IN ALL martial arts.


Quote:


Fighting is a semi lucrative profession if you choose it as your path, but it can also have a few side effects such as emotional instability.





Well again, we’re talking about fighting. No disrespect, but I tend to somewhat disagree with your views here. I personally think that competition is good for the soul. A-holes are everywhere, whether they’re fighting or not is irrelevant. In fact, fighting often serves the “a-hole” well, considering that a few good “ass-kicking’s” often serve to humble a person. That is one huge benefit of competition.

What is fighting but competition? What does the word competition mean? It’s two words, “com” meaning to come together (as in community), and “petition” meaning to strive. Competition thus means; “to strive together”. Which in the long run strengthens. It’s a very healthy thing. But again, lunatics are everywhere and in every form of martial art and in every endeavor. Not just fighting.

It’s interesting to note that many people involved in MMA are college educated. That alone says something about character.


Quote:


If all you do is train to fight that is going to be your mind set most of the time.





It often amazes me how these misperceptions and misconceptions spring about. I don’t fight and no one that trains WITH me trains to fight. I’m 41 years old and don’t plan on leaving my job and familial responsibilities to go train to fight for little pay. It’s not what I’m about, although you wouldn’t know that from listening to anyone here on this forum, lol.

I do this “stuff” because it’s fun and it’s good for the soul. It also gives me balance which is necessary in life. Through good, hard, and athletic training, I fill in the physical spot for the triune of body, mind and spirit.

But again these misconceptions are intriguing. I’ve try and do as much as possible to disperse with as many of them as possible regarding MMA and athletic training models.


Quote:


Personally I train ma's for the mental balance, peace of mind, focus, and the ability to defend myself. I do not train it to solely to fight.





I don’t train it solely to fight either. I train for mental balance, peace of mind and the ability to defend myself as well. Go figure, we are just alike. I just believe in aliveness in training all of that.


Quote:



Thanks for the break from shoveling!!! We are still digging out from that blizzard!





Take care out there, stay warm and ENJOY the snow. I’m having a 70 degree Christmas season. We have to buy INFLATABLE snowmen here dammit!


-John

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#308853 - 12/24/06 12:49 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: JKogas]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
John, though I do see where you're coming from. Fighting in a friendly manner where everyone can learn and benefit, but the nice-ness of this is ruined by a few un-mannered, rowdy folk. However, looking at the kind of peace and serenity that one achieves through your TMA is in my eyes a bit different from the kind that you seem to get. Unless your MMA training involves things like meditation and lots of internal breathing excercises then I'm probably wrong.

Both your traditional and modern MA training benefits the health. But most kinds of physical competition that are explosive, whether it be soccer, hockey, basketball, and combat sports provoke physical injury. Yes there are lots of athletes that survive their career with no injuries but there are also alot who do get injured. So there is that alternate healthy and peaceful benefit of practicing something like a kata.

In my mind though I think that a person who truely becomes a master can use his tools to the fullest but is also peaceful, serene, and in touch with themselves. They would sound like enlightened buddhas when you talk to them but can come down on you like lightning & thunder if pushed enough.
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#308854 - 12/24/06 01:03 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: JKogas]
ashe_higgs Offline
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Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 593
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Quote:

Strong body mechanics for epileptic fits?

The "seizure" form...I like it. That's not bad. When someone approaches you, you can start spazzing out like this and they'll certainly think you're crazy. I mean, who attacks an insane person, right?!

Hey, it might work AFTER ALL, lol.


-John




dude do you actually bother to READ someones post? or do you just love to hate cma so much you just launch right into your vitriolics?

my point was exactly that this form is NOT LIKELY TO BE TRADITIONAL PRECISELY BECAUSE IT LACKS GOOD BODY MECHANICS!
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#308855 - 12/24/06 08:36 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: IExcalibui2]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
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IExcalibui2 wrote:
Quote:

John, though I do see where you're coming from. Fighting in a friendly manner where everyone can learn and benefit, but the nice-ness of this is ruined by a few un-mannered, rowdy folk. However, looking at the kind of peace and serenity that one achieves through your TMA is in my eyes a bit different from the kind that you seem to get. Unless your MMA training involves things like meditation and lots of internal breathing excercises then I'm probably wrong.





Again, unmannered people are everywhere, but if I do get them, they don’t last long (for various reasons). Meditation and the like is fine. But did you realize that you can meditate and breathe while moving? I swear that grappling can be very much like meditation. I mean, I don’t have to sit perfectly still to be of “no-mind”. Not knocking your method however or saying it’s wrong. I’m just trying to further explain away some misconceptions about my own that seem to persist.

Sure there are gyms where you have more egos. That’s everywhere, in every style and system.


Quote:


Both your traditional and modern MA training benefits the health. But most kinds of physical competition that are explosive, whether it be soccer, hockey, basketball, and combat sports provoke physical injury.





“Explosive”? Brazilian jiu-jitsu? Sure it CAN be, but it doesn’t HAVE to be. Wish you guys could come train with me for a day.


Quote:


Yes there are lots of athletes that survive their career with no injuries but there are also alot who do get injured. So there is that alternate healthy and peaceful benefit of practicing something like a kata.





Certainly! And some folks want to develop the ability to defend themselves as well. They’re not getting that from kata.


Quote:


In my mind though I think that a person who truely becomes a master can use his tools to the fullest but is also peaceful, serene, and in touch with themselves. They would sound like enlightened buddhas when you talk to them but can come down on you like lightning & thunder if pushed enough.





You should talk with the Machados’ sometime.


ashe_higgs wrote:
Quote:


dude do you actually bother to READ someones post? or do you just love to hate cma so much you just launch right into your vitriolics?

my point was exactly that this form is NOT LIKELY TO BE TRADITIONAL PRECISELY BECAUSE IT LACKS GOOD BODY MECHANICS!





Dude, sure I read it. I misinterpreted it. Don’t get irregular.

You had written:

Quote:


s i said, that form is very wushu (IMO). traiditonal CMA emphasize the use of strong body mechanics.




Now that I understand what you’re saying a bit more, that sentence signifies that wushu is different than traditional CMA. At first when I read it, I misinterpreted it to mean that the form is “very wushu” and, that it had strong body mechanics because wushu was traditional. You’ll excuse me for not being up on Chinese terminology. I am American so learning a foreign vernacular isn’t really my cup of tea.

Perhaps you should realize that not everyone realizes that wushu is different from more traditional CMA. How would I know that considering I don’t study it.


-John

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#308856 - 12/24/06 02:19 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: JKogas]
Dudley32 Offline
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Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 482
Loc: Indiana
Come on everybody. You are all crazy. Everybody knows that this is an ancient groin manipulation form. Although it was meant to be for women being attacked on the street when it was initially created. Some of the more feminine Chinese have taken a liking to it.

Matt
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#308857 - 12/24/06 02:39 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: JKogas]
ashe_higgs Offline
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Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 593
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Quote:


Now that I understand what you’re saying a bit more, that sentence signifies that wushu is different than traditional CMA. At first when I read it, I misinterpreted it to mean that the form is “very wushu” and, that it had strong body mechanics because wushu was traditional. You’ll excuse me for not being up on Chinese terminology. I am American so learning a foreign vernacular isn’t really my cup of tea.

Perhaps you should realize that not everyone realizes that wushu is different from more traditional CMA. How would I know that considering I don’t study it.
-John




fair enough. my apologies.

for future reference;

wushu: modern, athletic/gymnastic performance art. this is the stuff that you see in the movies.

traditional CMA: this is "teh real" stuff, and can actually be used for fighting.

this is what TCMA looks like;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4RUMAt_Qq8&mode=related&search=


Edited by ashe_higgs (12/24/06 02:52 PM)
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#308858 - 12/24/06 08:02 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: ashe_higgs]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
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John
Its not that you can't meditate while moving but its different. If you talk to a Yoga freak they'll tell you about chakra points and everything that need to be aligned and so & so for maximum healthiness & sort. So the meditative state that you would achieve with movement or no movement will be different, but meditative states none the less.

Also about the explosiveness, I know it can be soft because I've personally done it before. I'm just presenting another perspective.

And katas arent designed to help you become a better fighter. Health and techniques probably are the focus. Health in terms of the breathing, the mental state of mind, and muscle stimulation. At the same time the artist is getting to practice their techniques and sharpen their skills ever so much more. Think of like a samurai meditating and out of no where draws his sword slices a falling leaf and then sits back down to meditate again.
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#308859 - 12/31/06 05:16 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: JKogas]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Well for those who have no experience with CMA, I can see the outbursts.

First and foremost, CMA differs in JMA in that the forms are just tools to develop a body method and to conceal techniques. In JMA (japanese), you use the techniques straight out of the form, exactly the way it looks. in CMA the application could be completely different from what you see in the form.

But I agree, that this is garbage. Not saying there aren't any valubles techniques hidden in there, but its not really valuble as a conditioning regimen. In fact it trains bad habits.
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Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#308860 - 01/15/07 11:04 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: BaguaMonk]
tailiugug Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 23
Loc: Utah
wow
it is very clear to me that most of of you have no idea what gung fu is about. or just how vularable the human body is below the waist. first off look at the tittle spiral boxing. then look at the flexabilty of the performers joints and ribs, he also diplays a hint of wiping power
it also craks me up about the comments on its traditional creditbiltiy. it seems clear to me that most who commented on this come from commerial training. i see at lest 15 death blows in this form not to mention the value of it internal conditioning.
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pain is joy

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#308861 - 01/15/07 11:24 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: tailiugug]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
"Death Blows"? That term alone deems it garbage, IMO.
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"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#308862 - 01/16/07 07:14 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: Chen Zen]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Death blows, lol



-John

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#308863 - 01/16/07 08:28 AM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: tailiugug]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

it is very clear to me that most of of you have no idea what gung fu is about.



Why don't you enlighten us? What do you think KF is about?

Quote:

it also craks me up about the comments on its traditional creditbiltiy.



Are you familiar with this form? Do you posses knowledge of its historical background?

Quote:

it seems clear to me that most who commented on this come from commerial training.



And what makes you think that? What is your background that gives you such a critical insight of other members of the forum?

Quote:

i see at lest 15 death blows in this form not to mention the value of it internal conditioning.



How do you know the functions of the form unless you are familiar with the form itself and the system that trains it?
The value of its internal conditioning? While there are some good movements from this persons core his body structure is not all that great during the form. His head hangs, he is hunching in his lower back, and his rooting looks quite disconnected in several places in the form. Good 'internal conditioning relies on having all of these things intact.
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Chris Haynes

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#308864 - 01/16/07 10:41 PM Re: Spiral boxing form video [Re: MattJ]
Mr_Heretik Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bronx NY, USA
After reading some of the comments, I do see that (after 0:30) many times when he drops on one knee, it looks like a joint lock with the way his arms are positioned as well. Looks sort of like a bunch of sloppy(then again I don't know the art, so maybe he's doing it perfectly) cross armlock- esque techniques

I could be,, and probably am, wrong though.

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