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#308072 - 01/14/07 09:35 AM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: Midnightcrawler]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
yes I am a self protection instructor,

I must apologise for blowing steam of at you like that, I teach female self protection and rape prevention, and I am very passionate about this subject.

Do you want a reality check, spend half an hour talking to a rape victim, A beautiful young lady who's skin has been scrubbed red raw in an attempt to make her feel clean again, who has had all of their confidence and self worth taken away from them, who can't enjoy a simple cuddle from a her husband or male loved one, someone who finds it difficult to even be alone in a room with a male, even one trying to help her gain enough confidence back to just hit a focus pad once. Try teaching her how to escape a simple wrist pin/grap what ever when all you see from her is pure terror.

So yes I have a vested interest, what ever you mean by that.

if I can stop just one woman having to experience the aftermath of rape let alone the act itself then I will. If teaching her how to how to feign compliance and passiveness in order to set the [censored] up for a preemptive strike is what it takes then fucken' hey I'll teach it. and I'll be proud that I did.

So I'm a "Professional Self Defence Instructor" with a "vested interest" Though I prefer the term Self Protection Instructor and have never used the word profesional, year I get paid to teach but I barely cover costs infact my club probably owes me money, I don't teach for the money, I teach because I want to make a difference not because I have a vested interest in $.

And please dont assume I'm just a smart arse kid i've done my 20 yr apprenticeship with TMA (and I'm talking true TMA not the mcdojo sport crap that passes themselves of as a Traditional Martial Art now a days. I've been paid to face 100's of violent people most of which I was able to deescalate and have them walk, some just had to be "convinced" and would not be persuaded otherwise.

I think it is Honourable that you do not want to strike first and no one can tell you to do otherwise. What I found less honourable is that you imply that anyone who does preempt or who advocates preemption are some what lower then you, beneath you or are lowering themselves to that of the scum that we train to defend against.

Do not hit first is a lovely sentiment, sadly the empirical data would indicate it to be flawed. "he who hits first wins" isn't just a catchy phrase it's a truism that has been found true by the people who's material I have studied.

Good luck With it all


Edited by drgndrew (01/14/07 09:36 AM)
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
#308073 - 01/14/07 03:36 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: drgndrew]
Midnightcrawler Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 184
Loc: England
Quote:

yes I am a self protection instructor,

I must apologise for blowing steam of at you like that,




No need to apologise. Its just that you were getting uptight, we all do that from time to time, its just human nature.

Quote:

how to escape a simple wrist pin/grap what ever when all you see from her is pure terror.




Every school teaches that type of technique.

Quote:

So yes I have a vested interest, what ever you mean by that.

If I can stop just one woman having to experience the aftermath of rape let alone the act itself then I will. If teaching her how to how to feign compliance and passiveness in order to set the [censored] up for a preemptive strike is what it takes then fucken' hey I'll teach it. and I'll be proud that I did.




Its your conscience chum. What guarantee do you have that the knowledge will never be misused? After all as you say they have been under considerable stress and like training a guard dog once it has bitten and tasted fresh blood the first time, its a hell of a lot more likely to do so again and again. Why is this so? Well because it likes it and is rewarded for its behaviour, it feels good to take a perceived reward for taught behavioural patterns.

Quote:

And please dont assume I'm just a smart arse kid i've done my 20 yr apprenticeship with TMA (and I'm talking true TMA not the mcdojo sport crap that passes themselves of as a Traditional Martial Art now a days. I've been paid to face 100's of violent people most of which I was able to deescalate and have them walk, some just had to be "convinced" and would not be persuaded otherwise.




I never did make that assumption, and its good that you are able to be that persuasive.

Quote:

I think it is Honourable that you do not want to strike first and no one can tell you to do otherwise. What I found less honourable is that you imply that anyone who does preempt or who advocates preemption are some what lower then you, beneath you or are lowering themselves to that of the scum that we train to defend against.




Thank you for the positive compliment, no one forced you to do that it was completely voluntary and very decent of you. However I do take the view that those who willingly embrace the concept of pre-emption are in fact lowering themselves not to the level of the scum (scum bit we agree on) which we train against, but rather to a position somewhat lower than that. The reason for this stance is that the 'scum' know no better, we do, or at least we should.

Quote:

Do not hit first is a lovely sentiment, sadly the empirical data would indicate it to be flawed. "he who hits first wins" isn't just a catchy phrase it's a truism that has been found true by the people who's material I have studied.




Thank you also for that, but I have always been of the opinion that in a SD situation the objective is to get away and not to win, winning implies a 'fight situation' not SD. If as you have said, you show escape from wrist grabs, bear hugs etc, there should be no need to teach pre-emptive strikes.

Good luck With it all




Many thanks.

MC.


Edited by Midnightcrawler (01/14/07 04:23 PM)
_________________________
God only knows; Really.

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#308074 - 01/14/07 09:49 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: Midnightcrawler]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
MNC,

you seem to be very convinced that you can survive any first strike, and turn the situation around in your favor.

either that, or you are convinced that the value of your ethical position is good enough that it is worth dying for.

I would not be convinced of either point.

Top
#308075 - 01/14/07 10:31 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: Midnightcrawler]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
I'll agree to disagree with regards the preemptive strike.

as for my my little tanty, I allowed a nerve to be touched, blame it on me not having my nanny nap

I think if we really got down to it we would have far more overall agreements than disagreements.

For the record I'm very much behind the awareness, and avoidance aspect of self protection. I've had two articles published in Blitz MA mag and another to be published next month, all to do with awareness, avoidance and the like. (yeah I'm dropping a plug for my self there ) and i do see the pre-empt as just one of many legit strategies.

Friends?
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
#308076 - 01/14/07 10:38 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: drgndrew]
Midnightcrawler Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 184
Loc: England
Hi Drew,

Friends? Hell yes, there never was any question of that from my end. Maybe I have a problem, in that I always consider a stranger to be a friend that I have yet to know.

Its nice to find new friends. Thanks.

Best regards.

MC.
_________________________
God only knows; Really.

Top
#308077 - 01/14/07 10:41 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: globetrotter]
Midnightcrawler Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 184
Loc: England
Globetrotter,

I'm not being rude, but I can answer your question in one word. Both !!

Stay good.


MC.
_________________________
God only knows; Really.

Top
#308078 - 01/14/07 11:41 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: Midnightcrawler]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Quote:

I have already said that I do not have a daughter of 15 yrs of age, my youngest daughter is 26, so I have answered your question. If you keep on about her age she might end up aged 90 before the point is grasped!!!

As to your second point, I thought you would know the answer by now. I'd convict the bugger as he struck first, thereby initiating the violence. Not difficult to grasp now is it?



Midnight, possinly the most stupid view I have ever seen. drgndrew is right. Although you and I share the same view of preemptive strikes, my reasons are totally different and at the very least, good ones. I wouldnt use preemptive strikes because I don think they would work 70% of the time , not because i disagree with their principles. If you feel that it is A) neccesary and B) able to be pulled off then by all means go for it. drgndrew you were right, but I dont reccomend a girl use a preemptive strike against her horny boyfriend. You know what would happen? shed hit him, hed get [censored] off and rape her. I think she should try and convince him with words, and if it gets to the stage where she needs to hit, such as him grabbing her, after shes said this, then its not preemptive any more. Its " beat the crap out of this sonofabitch til his head is knocked off then run away.
Midnight, in all honesty your views are actually rather silly, and outdated/unrealistic. Its hard to believe you said that having a daughter yourself, as you seemed to be putting the law above her and everyone elses protection. I dont give a crap if its illegal. Im gonna do anything I need to do in my defence. Thats the view you should have, instead of " no we cant protect ourselves its illegal". [censored] the law
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#308079 - 01/15/07 05:59 AM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: crablord]
Midnightcrawler Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 184
Loc: England
Quote:

I have already said that I do not have a daughter of 15 yrs of age, my youngest daughter is 26, so I have answered your question. If you keep on about her age she might end up aged 90 before the point is grasped!!!

As to your second point, I thought you would know the answer by now. I'd convict the bugger as he struck first, thereby initiating the violence. Not difficult to grasp now is it?




Quote:

Its hard to believe you said that having a daughter yourself, as you seemed to be putting the law above her and everyone elses protection.




I have in fact two Daughters and two Sons all of which are doing very well. My oldest Daughter has been married five years and hopefully will make me a granddad before two long, provided that is between the two of them her husband and her are able to work out what goes where. I ask you five years and no kids. I failed in her education somewhere!!

No-one (yes that's right) No-one is above the law of the land, and I'll provide two examples by way of explanation. Her Majesty the Queen pays income tax just like everyone else, and you might remember what happened to the President of the USA in the 1970's one Richard Nixon when he overstepped the mark. It was known as the 'Watergate Scandal'.

Quote:

I dont give a crap




Have you tried Senna pods mate?

Oh, sorry I'll read that again!!

Quote:

I dont give a crap if its illegal. Im gonna do anything I need to do in my defence. Thats the view you should have, instead of " no we cant protect ourselves its illegal". [censored] the law




From your above statement I conclude that you have no respect for the law. This being the case I quite rightly put you at the same level as the scum which Drew and myself referred to in some earlier posts. Anyone who disrespects the law I would categorise in the same manner. A person cannot consider themselves to be an upright law abiding citizen, 'which I would expect you do' and then pick and chose which laws they elect to obey. Its an all or nothing situation, if you step over that line I'll take great pleasure in helping to put anyone down. Tax fiddlers, embezzelers, arsonists, bank robbers, muggers, drug dealers or pre-empters, makes no difference to me, they are all in the same boat.

Quote:

Thats the view you should have, instead of " no we cant protect ourselves its illegal". [censored] the law




Never tell me how I should think. Having worked my arse off I have three degrees from various institutions. This might suggest that I am in fact more highly qualified than yourself. OK there is the chance I may not be, but don't tell me how to think. One of the marks of Nazi Germany was that it told its citizens how to think, one of the marks of the Bushido Academy of Martial Arts (UK) is that it tells its customers how to think. Don't do that with me. EVER.

MC


Edited by Midnightcrawler (01/15/07 06:02 AM)

Top
#308080 - 01/15/07 06:32 AM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: Midnightcrawler]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Quote:

rom your above statement I conclude that you have no respect for the law. This being the case I quite rightly put you at the same level as the scum which Drew and myself referred to in some earlier posts. Anyone who disrespects the law I would categorise in the same manner. A person cannot consider themselves to be an upright law abiding citizen, 'which I would expect you do' and then pick and chose which laws they elect to obey. Its an all or nothing situation, if you step over that line I'll take great pleasure in helping to put anyone down. Tax fiddlers, embezzelers, arsonists, bank robbers, muggers, drug dealers or pre-empters, makes no difference to me, they are all in the same boat.



Oh believe me I respect the law, I respect the "don't speed" and " don't drink and drive" types of laws, and I follow them, Cant say I respect any law that gets me killed however.

"and then pick and chose which laws they elect to obey. Its an all or nothing situation, if you step over that line I'll take great pleasure in helping to put anyone down. Tax fiddlers, embezzelers, arsonists, bank robbers, muggers, drug dealers or pre-empters, makes no difference to me, they are all in the same boat."

No their not, If I...say speed, sure I've broken the law, but I'm no murderer.

Quote:

Never tell me how I should think. Having worked my arse off I have three degrees from various institutions. This might suggest that I am in fact more highly qualified than yourself.


So? doesn't seem to have helped you. You can have all the damn degrees you want, doesn't mean you know more than me about this subject. In fact you have LESS knowledge than me on this subject from the looks of things.
You have still managed not to reply to my main point, which was that you so far, have put the law above peoples welfare. v for vendetta anyone? Laws are meant to help people you know. in fact, lets do a poll.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

Top
#308081 - 01/15/07 06:34 AM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: crablord]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Would you, if your life was endangered or a simalar situation occured, break the law for your own safety?
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 01/15/07 06:33 AM
View the results of this poll.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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