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#308042 - 12/15/06 10:13 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: Stormdragon]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I will strike first, and many times after that.

As for hitting your wife, or another women, you might practice that at home but it would only happen in front of me once.
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

#308043 - 12/15/06 10:22 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: mark]
McSensei Offline

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1069
Loc: Kent, England

You wrote..

"I think some people, have interpreted a pre-emptive strike to prevent the other person getting a shot at you first, into Smacking some poor innocent if they so much as look at you.."

This is my point. How do you know? As I said, I've seen and been in loads of situations that have gone right to the wire and then backed down to nothing apart from some verbal.
I think Saisho said it best..

"That doesn't mean you can't make contact first. An attack can be many things and even if the person throws a strike and you are faster, you strike first."

This is what I train for and where I am at. Who knows? In the future I may change my mind because of the nature of the job. I am always openminded about such things.

Brian, as a rule I don't let people in to my personal space, but everybody must have been in one of those forehead to forehead situations before.

#308044 - 12/16/06 12:13 AM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: Chen Zen]
swseibukan Offline

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
I've been married for 26 years now and I found out along time ago. If I don't get in the first shot the old lady is all over me like ugly on an ape. It's all about survival.
Pat O'Brien
Southwest Seibukan

Patience my ass I’m going to kill something

#308045 - 12/16/06 06:55 AM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: swseibukan]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
Chen Zen,

Next time you go to Wal-Mart, buy yourself a very large jar marked, IRONY and an even larger box with the words SENSE OF HUMOUR

FFS. Didn’t you notice the wink smiley?

“Nothing wrong with an appropriate level of domestic discipline. Vital that she knows her place…

McSensei, ok mate whatever, but please just don’t get battered on the door.


PS; ROFL swseibukan so true, I know who the real boss is!

#308046 - 12/16/06 08:58 AM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: McSensei]
Cord Offline

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.

This is my point. How do you know? As I said, I've seen and been in loads of situations that have gone right to the wire and then backed down to nothing apart from some verbal

I think the trick is to genuinely not care or feel upset about hurting someone who is obviously aggressive towards you. If they encroach your space,and freely use verbal intimidation, the chances are they have got away with this numerous times. Its territorial pi$$ing, or ego inflation or whatever.
Its not your job to assess that- you are not trying to second guess them and see the bullied 5 year old within. Leave that for the social workers.

If you dont hit them, they will never learn that their behaviour has consequences. Working the door, you have to be calm and approachable, but you also need to let the punters know that there is a line that they overstep at their peril.
If you dont, you just make work for yourself.

If it nags at your conscience, look at it this way- the worst they are going to get from you is a sore jaw and a ride out the fire escape. If they try their hard-ass routine on the wrong person in public, they could get killed.
By hitting them, you are saving their life. its the kind thing to do.
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'

#308047 - 12/16/06 06:44 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: mark]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I saw the smiley. It just looked like you were promoting woman beating. Im SOOOOO against that that I dont really even think it should be joked about. However, my apologies to you. Touchy button, thats all.
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

#308048 - 12/16/06 09:08 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: Chen Zen]
Mishael Offline

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 33
I believe anytime you make it clear that you are uncomfortable with someone entering your personal space and they continue to advance to your guard, you are justified in a pre-emptive strike. Also, things like the eyes opening and then narrowing, tension in the upper torso, clench fists, etc make it clear that they intend to do you harm. I usually say very loudly, "You are making me uncomfortable; please don't come any closer." Then I ask them what they want. Then I strike and continue striking until they are no longer a threat. If there are alot of people around I might yell things like: "I told you I don't want any trouble." Of course, I am elbowing, kneeing, and striking them as I yell. No one has the right to try an intimidate you by entering your personal space.

Edited by Mishael (12/16/06 09:10 PM)

#308049 - 01/12/07 06:41 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: Zombie Zero]
Midnightcrawler Offline

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 184
Loc: England

If an aggressor indicates an intent to harm me, whether through verbal or non-verbal means, then yes. Self-defense.

Verbal is just that words; remember the old saying, "sticks and stones my break my bones but names will never hurt me"? An altercation isn't 'on' until somebody throws one. The first one to 'go physical' has just lost any respect I might have had for them. In my way of thinking its the mark of a coward, because they were the first to lose their composure and self control. If a person cannot control themselves, their emotions, ego or fear what is there to suggest they are capable of, or have the right to control another individual?

Edited by Midnightcrawler (01/12/07 06:58 PM)

#308050 - 01/12/07 06:55 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: McSensei]
Midnightcrawler Offline

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 184
Loc: England

A valid strategy? Absolutely.

Would I use it myself? No, almost never.

You can be 99 % sure someone is going to attack you and then...nothing. I've seen it quite often and have also been there, right up in someones face screaming and shouting, threatening allsorts and then it all sort of just peters out with no actual violence. If I had struck pre-emptively I would have been in twice the number of fights I have.


Exactly the point I was making in my post above.

Of course it will depend on the school or other training organisation which the individual attends, in that some (the disreputable ones) will encourage this type of behaviour. I suppose that the schools which enthusiastically teach and encourage this type of behaviour have been founded and staffed by the sort of individuals who enjoy physically imposing their will on others, IE Bullies.

There are unfortunately a number in existence in the UK (BAMA) being one example and others where regular and severe beatings are handed out to students by higher grades and instructors. I strongly believe that this type of organisation should be weeded out and the protagonists banned from teaching.
God only knows; Really.

#308051 - 01/12/07 08:14 PM Re: POLL - Pre-emptive strikes? [Re: Midnightcrawler]
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I sgree with McSensei completely on this matter. Great points.


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