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#307695 - 12/13/06 09:15 AM Acknowledging BB's from other system
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
So much talk about belts....;)

Question for those who have schools, or teach: how do you deal with new students who come with advanced training. For example, a new student who has a BB in another system (may be you teach Shotokan, and he ranked in Goju) starts training, and obviously has the skills and knowledge that you would consider comensurate with a BB in your style.

How long before you either acknowledge that belt in your system...or before you make them test for it?

#307696 - 12/13/06 09:20 AM Re: Acknowledging BB's from other system [Re: harlan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
logical thing in my (valued ) opinion to do would be to put them in the class appropriate to their skill level, eg advanced.. but put them through the belts normally. So they may be a white belt training with the brown and blacks.
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

#307697 - 12/13/06 09:23 AM Re: Acknowledging BB's from other system [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Yes, humility assumed, a new student would train with his/her peers with no rank until acknowledged. But how long would that period be...and would they simply be 'acknowledged'...or have to test to earn it in the particular system. (This latter option, BTW, smacks to me of simply getting $$$.)

Also, it isn't just skills and ability but the style has forms that must be learned as well. Some 'Grand Poobah' in another style can come into a school...but if they don't know the forms of a green belt then they can't teach logically can't be ranked in a system until they do.

#307698 - 12/13/06 09:25 AM Re: Acknowledging BB's from other system [Re: harlan]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Personally, I'd have him wear his obi in the class and stand with the other dans (and have done this). And I'd try to fast-track him in the katas to catch him up, because if he wanted to advance in Isshinryu he'd have to be proficient in our curriculum. No way I'd dishonor him with not acknowledging his rank.

#307699 - 12/13/06 09:28 AM Re: Acknowledging BB's from other system [Re: Ironfoot]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1993
Loc: Lorton, VA
I'll co-sign what Ironfoot said.

#307700 - 12/13/06 09:44 AM Re: Acknowledging BB's from other system [Re: Zombie Zero]
tkd_high_green Offline

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
I haven't seen anyone from another art join our school, but we have had several students who joined from other TKD Schools, or who perhaps trained as a child and stopped training for one reason or another and decided to start up again. These students will start at whatever their current rank was, but will stay there until they learn or relearn the curriculum and are ready to move on.


#307701 - 12/13/06 09:54 AM Re: Acknowledging BB's from other system [Re: tkd_high_green]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Lower belts is one thing, upper belts...I think that there is a little more involved.

For one thing...someone can say whatever rank they want...but it's really the skills/performance/attitude that is being assessed by a group/dojo/peers. 'Sure...wear your belt' is not the same as acceptance. It can be considered as partially 'dojo politics'...but is a realistic consideration that group conformity and quality control becomes more important in the higher grades.

#307702 - 12/13/06 09:59 AM Re: Acknowledging BB's from other system [Re: tkd_high_green]
Blackrainbow Offline

Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 220
Loc: Brandon Fl.USA
Skills, knowledge and attitude are all that matter to me. I often have guest instructors from other systems come in to teach. I have had many students of all belt ranks come to me for various reasons. As far as any advanced dan promotions, it is not an issue since we use a board to promote not one individual instructor. So a BB coming to me would have to be checked out by my seniors. I don't have the authority to grant instant dan rank. But a good BB from any legit school or system is always welcome. All are welcome in my dojo.
You cannot defend against that which you do not understand

#307703 - 12/13/06 10:01 AM Re: Acknowledging BB's from other system [Re: harlan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Well this has more things to consider. Not only where is it fair to fit them in for the newcomer, but where would it be fair to fit the newcomer in for the other students. While a BB in another style make not know your system, they have still gained much experience & skills.
Should they go in as white belts? They are not true beginners. Should they be allowed to compete in your Art's tournaments as a white belt? Would that be fair to the other true white belt beginners?

The way we have always tried to handle it, that person can wear their belt or can start at white. However, further advancement is determined by when they learn the required syllabus. At testings, it is permissable to skip students who have previous training. We have had many trnasfer students. The ones who stick it out, are usually the ones not concerned with the rank.

You see, we have a complex syllabus, with 3,200+ fundamental movements. In addition how we move is very different from other styles. Even the terminology is so different. It is simply not enought to learn a new set of patterns. Many simply give up, or can't teach an old dog new tricks syndrome, unless they embrace the change as benefical.

#307704 - 12/13/06 10:38 AM Re: Acknowledging BB's from other system [Re: harlan]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
If a person comes to my advanced class to train but it is understood that they are there not to advance but just visit and train, they wear their belt.

If a person wants to become a part of my style/system, I have them start at white belt and I progress them faster. It takes about 4 years (minimum) for a new person to advance to shodan. There are 9 Kyu ranks, 3 white, 3 green and 3 brown. I had a shodan from another Okinawan system start training with me and I promoted him to Shodan in 2 years instead of 4. I had him go from white to 1 green belt then to 1 brown belt. Something other than another Okinawan style might take a little longer, but would still be fast tracked (depending on skill).
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo

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